Children having their own seat on a packed train.

But if your child gets fractious and squirms like mine would have done and potentially starts crying - that isn’t increasing the comfort of the train is it?

I would absolutely have moved my child for a cuddle if I thought it was conducive to everyone being comfortable. If I thought my child would be far more uncomfortable by moving them and would be very difficult for me on a packed train then I wouldn’t. I’m not going to martyr myself for other people. I would be really angry with a parent who moved their child and that child started crying because of it and distuebed everyone else.

That children are less important than adults, as stated already.

No I wouldn’t, because I wouldn’t ask ANYONE for a seat. If someone gives me one I’m grateful, but if not, it is what it is.

It's not good manners to make yourself and your child very uncomfortable for a journey, it's being a martyr

I do think people aren't thinking about this at all from the POV of the three year old. Sat in their own seat, they can talk to their parent, their parent can read to them or play simple games. Sat on their lap, all they can see is the seat in front of them, they cannot easily look at a book or anything.

Grown adults don't do that on train journeys, they have headphones/play on their phone etc, why do we expect 2-4 year olds to manage to be content with it?

With my primary age children, I will make them budge up so we are three to a double seat is the train is very busy - because that isn't actually very uncomfortable and we can all still read which is what we tend to do on train journeys.

But I didn't take my 3-4 year olds on my lap just to make some random able bodied adult happy and I won't apologise for it

It would be selfless, but it wouldn't improve the average comfort on the train carriage.

Instead of them standing and me sitting, I would be standing and they would be sitting. No change.

In my scenario, all three of us are sitting. In my experience, this is not a major sacrifice for me or my three year old (we may be a little less comfortable, although the benefit is we can also have a cuddle).

What within that post do you disagree with and why?

But modelling selfless behaviour would be you giving your seat up for a stranger surely?

This is your caveat: "with a high risk of an upset child making their discomfort known plus another person sitting next to them likely getting kicked as the three-year old wriggles."

This is not inevitable.

The fact you think a tired upset three year old is ‘badly behaved’ says it all,

You said that, not me. My experience with my three children (all well over three years old now) is not what you described.

Gosh, what a warped view of parental care.

Yes, of course it is, within the role of a parent of a 3 year old.

A three year old is clearly a vulnerable person. A parent's role is to guide and instruct. A parent is able to take a holistic view of the needs of the child . And the reason the parent is given this legal and moral duty is because their child is physically less capable and not capable of living autonomously without parental guidance.

So, yes, I think it is fine to model selfless behaviour to my three year old. I think not doing so is an abdication of parental responsibility.

How do they equate nice with forcing a child out of their seat?

Yes because why don’t you give your own seat up then if you are so nice?

No, I comprehend exactly what you're saying!
Thanks!
Gracias!
Merci!
Danke!
I just do not agree with your approach - which essentially boils down to adults being more deserving of seats than children.

Again, you seem incapable of comprehending what's being suggested without adding emotive language to twisty the reality of the hypothetical situation.

No adult in my scenario feels "entitled" to the three year olds seat. The seat is being offered to the stranger unconditionally.

It's also the fact that people are demanding it or saying it's lack of manners not to. It's actually lack of manners to demand someone else's seat.

I don’t believe you are the parent of a three year old if you think getting overtired is misbehaving. Or if you are then I pity the three year old.

Even worse, that you're willing to put a random able bodied stranger before your poor child.
The overall point is the same though, saying children matter less than adults, and that is utterly depressing.

PS: It helps to tag or quote who you're responding to.

Presumably you’d be happy if someone ‘instructed’ you to use your lap as a seat for a three year old?

personally I wouldn’t have wanted to use my own lap for that purpose when my children were three but it’s great you think it’s so reasonable. Maybe you could have a little badge saying so.

I think people clearly differ on how comfortable they find having a child on their lap.

For me, it's completely different having a child on my lap on a sofa where I can spread my legs uut a bit and there is more space for the child's legs and elbows and doing it in an upright train seat, trying not to encroach on the person next to me.

It also makes it much harder to entertain the child with a book or whatever

It seems so.
He/she also seems to think English isn't my first language because I don't subscribe to his/her ridiculous entitlement.

Again, I don't think you have a grasp of what you are talking about here.

I am not the stranger in this scenario. I am the three year olds' parent. I am not demanding the three year olds seat. I am offering to sacrifice some of my comfort - and instructing my 3 year old to sacrifice a little of their comfort - to help a stranger in need

It's absolutely unreasonable to expect a 3 year old to relinquish a seat just because another adult feels entitled to it.
It's uncomfortable for the child and the parent they have to sit on, and unsafe.
I understand exactly the point you're trying to make, but I vehemently disagree with the entitled attitude.
HTH

If my child was not provided with a seat I would resent paying for one to be honest. If they didn’t have to pay for a seat I’d be happy with them sharing mine.

Maybe the train company should offer this as an option? Free rail travel for children who don’t have their own seat. Sounds fair to me

So you think it fine to instruct vulnerable people to do things if it makes you happier because they are smaller and have less autonomy?