Children having their own seat on a packed train.

There's an awful lot of unwritten 'expectations' I think that just so happen to coincide with with who wants to sit down

....in which case you'd be askung the person in that seat to move, whatever age they were.

However, as the PP said, if you haven't booked a specific seat, the ticket doesn't entitle you to one. If it did, the train company would be sued by thousands of commuters every day.

I'm guessing they think a 3 year old wouldn't be on a train by themselves and could sit on a lap?!

But train companies also allow you to buy a ticket for your under 5 if you wish to do so. I'm taking a train from London to Aberdeen next month and bought my 4 year old a ticket because there is no way either of us can manage that long squashed on 1 seat. And there is no way I'll be giving it up to anyone.

No, a 3 year old needs a seat more than I do.

Difficult one - I was brought up in the era of leaving the seat for an adult if I was young enough to sit on my parents lap, but I'm aware this has changed. I do think if the child is young enough to have a free ticket then they could have moved but if the parent hasn't already done this then I think they are probably not the sort of parent you want to be asking!

Where are 3 year old children supposed to stand and hold on because them standing isn't actually facilitated in any way.

Why is it a dreadful hardship? I managed to travel routinely with a small child on my lap for a long time without noticing any untold suffering. I know there may be parents for whom it would be genuinely difficult, in which case all they have to do is say Sorry, I can't do that. It doesn't mean that OP can't ask.

Just have an argument for argument's sake, why don't you?

If they are under 5 it's unlikely

But she's only asking. If there is a good reason why the child can't sit on the parent's lap, the parent can always say so. Plenty of people on this thread have said they would automatically put their child on their lap if people are standing, so it's clearly not an outrageous thing to ask.

Plus a lot of train companies have it as a condition of carriage that small children sit on laps or get carried if adults need the seats, so asking the parent to comply with those conditions is entirely reasonable.

it says on the National Rail website that

Children under 5 years of age travel for free on most journeys but check with your train company to make sure. Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger. To have a reserved seat for a child under 5 you will need to purchase a child rate ticket. These come with seat reservations (if available), and there is also a 50% discount on most tickets.

So I would expect the parent to move them, assuming they hadn’t bought a ticket.

But he travels for free by bus….

I couldn't begrudge a toddler (or their parent) a comfortable journey just so that I might have one instead.
Three year olds aren't the most reasonable people in the world. They tend to want to move about, just wriggle, to kick their legs. Being perched on someone's knee isn't an ideal situation for a length of time. Likewise, it's not comfortable for the adult to have to juggle the child and any bags they might have.
Public transport seating is very much first come, first served. Unless you have a designated space (either through reservation or disability), you're no more entitled to sit than anyone else. Children included.

Children should stand/sit on a parents lap. We always had to do so when we were children - why should it be any different now? It should be instinctive in parents to let other adults have a seat.

On London Underground, children travel free with a parent up to the age of eleven - I do not agree with this rule and would not have a 10yo DC on my lap!

I don't think you can police this. You don't know if the child has sensory needs and would be pushed over the edge into melt-down without a seat, or whether the parent has had a knee operation or whatever. People who aren't selfish tossers are already taking up the least space they can. People who are selfish tossers are not going to get a personality transplant if you call them out. Your ticket gives you the right to be on the train, not a right to a seat.

If a train is packed then I don't think a child no higher than your knees should be standing where literally everyone else is three times their height. They're getting too big for sitting on knees for any real amount of time at that age. On some trains there wouldn't be space either eg if there are tables.

I have never seen anywhere that free travel for under 5s carries and expectation that they will sit on someone's knees. That sounds made up.

Don't be ridiculous

So tricky! Hopefully we can all be a bit more forgiving of one another and not get arsey after making assumptions about one another's capabilities.

I once read that if you're stuck behind a really slow driver, pretend they have an elaborate wedding cake in the back so they're being extremely careful and cautious. How can you get annoyed at someone not wanting to ruin a wedding cake?! It's silly but it stuck with me - when I start getting annoyed by people in public, I try and think of a silly, harmless "reason" they're being that way. It does help... most of the time haha.

Failing that, you can have horrible thoughts in your head and as long as you don't say them out loud, nobody would ever know 😂

I used to pay for a ticket (and reserve a seat) for mine at that age because it made life much easier and more comfortable.

Strictly speaking this is not correct. Children can travel for free on transport for London until they are 10 - surely people don’t expect parents to have a 10 year old on their lap. Even a 5 year old can be tricky.
@user1493559472 I wouldn’t expect parents to move their children for me to sit no. And wouldn’t ask. Depending on the circumstances I might move my 3 year old to my lap but not always.

No of course not - the child has a paid seat!

What I do disagree with is people putting their bags on seats leading to people standing. A different issue, entirely.

I think it’s whoever gets on first. You don’t buy
a train ticket to get a seat it’s for the journey. Most often then not there isn’t room to put a kid on your lap without them then accidentally hitting the person in front or to the side. Most kids want their own seats and if you removed them would have a tantrum. Fair enough you can explain they can’t have their own seat as it’s busy but they most likely wouldn’t understand or have the empathy to sit on your lap without having tantrum still.

I'm feeling very old reading this thread. I was raised to stand for adults on public transport. As a parent, I have always pulled small children on my lap to allow someone else to sit. It's the decent thing to do.

Toddlers fit nicely in the luggage rack 👍