Children having their own seat on a packed train.

Are you aware there are other posters in this thread?

Oh my goodness, where have I said they should stand and hold on for dear life?If there is no space avaliable on lap then of course they should be on the seat - no one is arguing with you - except you in your head. Stop trying to be a typing warrior and take in what you are reading rather than 'trying' to wind me up. Not going to bother reading your crap now so jog on!

How is she not denying them a seat, exactly? A lap isn't a seat.

No, they haven't. HTH

Poor, poor child. His friends will mock if they see a 9 year old on their mum's knee.

A three year old won't feel entitled but if they are taught they are the same as an adult and not to offer a seat I personally think they grow up with a lack of respect for elders and feeling entitled when they eventually grasp social constructs (which actually doesn't take too long!)

Train designs have changed a lot since most of us were young. Less poles, less stuff to hang on to at a lower height. Back in the compartment days you could stand in front of parents between their legs but now that would be impinging on the person opposite's knee room. Seats are also more defined rather than being true benches less seat pitch so you would struggle to fit a child in the gap, I think the tables are lower too - so the environment is less "friendly" to a small child standing or sitting on a lap.

It would be a nice thing to do, but I wouldn't get mad if they didn't. Perhaps the mother wants a comfortable ride without holding the child in her lap. Making mothers hold children capable of sitting independently on their laps to allow able-bodied adults get seats is a kind of social enforcement of the caregiving burden in my opinion. Another penalty they must face for having a child. The child is no less deserving of a seat. And the mother probably deserves a ride in comfort. I find this constant feeling that mothers must be visibly uncomfortable to accomodate another able bodied person's comfort to be tiresome.

Better for who?
You?

The argument is under five’s are not entitled to a seat as they haven’t paid for one. Manu families have more than one young child so where do they go if the can’t use a seat? The idea that a three year old is safe standing in front of their parent and hold their leg is ridiculous.

My children are free on the train until they are 11- I don't think he will fit onto my lap that long!

I think some people on this thread are being quite disingenuous. All this righteous huffing about how children are people too when no one has said otherwise 🙄 juxtaposed with moans about how uncomfortable it is to sit with a three-year-old on lap. And then those of us who are pro toddlers sitting on laps are the entitled ones? 🤔

A three year will understand what its parent has bothered to teach it. That might have to be in very simple terms but it’s absolutely possible to teach a three year old good manners.

As I have said before, you are assuming that a 3 year old understands the social construct surrounding the seat. I also think that in the late 80's/90's there wasn't magically no pearents who couldn't have a child sat on their lap for any length of time.

On long distance trains if you want a seat you reserve one.

on short distance trains it’s first come first served except for priority seats.

Oh for goodness sake, so being so ruddy pedantic for the sake of trying to make an argument where there isn't one.

They don't have to stand, they can sit on parent's lap. If for any reason that's not possible and the parent is sitting, they could stand by or in front of parent and hold on to their legs or hands.

Even if the child is under 5 and notionally free, they may still have a ticket and thus be entitled to a seat. With a family railcard it's actually cheaper to buy a ticket for an accompanying child under 5 because the railcard gives a 33% discount on adult fares as well, so long as you are accompanied by a child who has a ticket, so we regularly bought train tickets fir our 1/2yo DC.

I regularly travel from London to Leeds and back with my 2.5 year old. Of course we take 2 seats if they’re available, and of course he sits on my knee if someone is standing. We haven’t paid for him a seat so he can sit on me (I agree it’s not ideal but it’s certainly not a dreadful hardship for me as has been suggested!)

Probably not. I'm more stable, lots of seats don't have enough room for a three year old on a lap and sitting next to him probably wouldn't be that comfortable either.

If me and my child were taking up two seats, yes in all honesty I would think of others and move them to my lap.

If I was standing up (your OP implies the parent is), no I wouldn't sit down and put the child on my lap, unless it benefitted me ie. that scenario would be a selfish act.

They wouldn't be deprived of a seat if they're on their parent's lap, would they?

And if the lap is already occupied?

If there's more than one small child in the same family, they should share a seat - the seats are plenty big enough for two typical under-fives.

Like others on this thread, when I was a child I was expected to give up my seat for adults, whether a paid for seat or not.

Announcing your child's disability/mobility issues/SEN on a packed train is understandably not something a parent may always feel comfortable doing for whatever reason.

As I explained in my first comment, when someone asked my son to stand up in a packed train over the summer holidays, I got met with an eye roll when I explained that the folded up wheelchair is my sons and he can't stand up.

When that happens, I definitely don't feel like explaining my son's needs to people.