Children having their own seat on a packed train.

I was picturing mine at 11, they were about 5 ft 1 by that age!

Correct. I pay for a train ticket, just like any other adult. I have a disabled person’s railcard, which I also pay for. A bit like a student railcard, or one for a family. We all pay, but some are discounted.

Very grateful for my bus pass though.

I think what a lot of people don’t accept is lived experience. I have survived childhood, teen years, young adulthood, middle age (when I would offer my seat) and I would now be classed as elderly (I prefer older but it doesn’t paint the same picture). I am no longer the robust person I was a few years ago. I exercise, keep my weight at a reasonable level, but I can’t halt the aging process. Like lots of older people I don’t want to stay at home 24/7, but without knowing I can sit on a journey, I’m less likely to venture far.

More people being able to sit is better than fewer people being able to sit. It's just common courtesy to put any child who can fit on your lap onto your lap if others are standing. A minor inconvenience that helps someone else out.

Or it used to be, when common courtesy was still a thing.

I'm the same, I always reserve seats.

Yes you do and I have in the past. You have said that you have no under fives yourself. Do you have children at all? You have deliberately been goading the people on this thread who have a different view from yours; a view that was normal until very recently. It is about courtesy towards others. I love children, have three adult children of my own and have taught music to children and adults all my career. Yes, children are important - they are our future, after all - but child centred does not mean that they are the most important people. They need to be taught from the very beginning that they are not the centre of the universe and, yes, to respect adults.

Correct. I pay for a train ticket, just like any other adult. I have a disabled person’s railcard, which I also pay for. A bit like a student railcard, or one for a family. We all pay, but some are discounted.

Very grateful for my bus pass though.

I think what a lot of people don’t accept is lived experience. I have survived childhood, teen years, young adulthood, middle age (when I would offer my seat) and I would now be classed as elderly (I prefer older but it doesn’t paint the same picture). I am no longer the robust person I was a few years ago. I exercise, keep my weight at a reasonable level, but I can’t halt the aging process. Like lots of older people I don’t want to stay at home 24/7, but without knowing I can sit on a journey, I’m less likely to venture far.

I speak German and I just googled the lyrics of that song. They're lovely, but I think it's pretty offensive you've brought them up in this particular context. It's difficult to see the relevance of a song that essentially says 'children are fragile and precious, don't hurt or abuse them' on this thread unless you're proposing there's some sort of continuum between saying it's fine for a child to sit on their parent's lap on a train and potential abuse/neglect of a child. So, is that what you're suggesting?

@Lavender14

you pay for trains even if you are in receipt of the state pension, only buses are free nationwide. A few cities have free trains but only local services not long distance

No, you don't.

I'm actually randomly listening to a song called Kinder, written by a woman called Bettina Wegner. Some folk on here might need to listen too!

I do. But I am not going to show you their ticket if you demand they move because you don’t want to stand.

Then pay for their ticket. Don’t accept the free child ticket because that’s for children who can sit on their grown up’s laps.

Then pay for their ticket. Don’t accept the free child ticket because that’s for children who can sit on their grown up’s laps.

Oh, do get a grip. It's not anti-children in the slightest to suggest that if possible a toddler might sit on their parent's lap during busy commuting times.

But according to the people on this thread it’s only children that have trouble with balance.

As a mum, I would let my kids sit down and I would stand next to them. Trying to get a 3 year old to sit on your lap is a nightmare, they'll end up kicking the person next to them as they are too big and wriggly.
But a busy train, it's even more important a toddler has a seat - it's horrible being squished between people standing... especially if you only reach their knees!

For goodness' sake. You do not reason or "try and persuade" a three-year-old to sit on your lap, you make it a fait accomplis. You say: "Olivia, you are going to sit on Mummy's lap now because this lady needs to sit down," while you are physically doing just that.

I’ve noticed the anti children thing on here has really ramped up in the last few years.

I would try to convince my child, but realistically there is no chance my 3yo would agree to seat on my laps. And that's not a battle I would be ready to fight on a train...

I remember a woman having a go at me when I was heavily pregnant for this reason- the bus was full and they were standing and my 3 year old was seated next to me. I explained that I was pregnant and couldn’t hold her on my lap (I also had severe PGP but why should I need to explain that to an angry stranger?) and she started arguing about how many kids she’d had etc etc…I noticed that she didn’t pick any of the young men on the bus to have a go at for not giving up their seat, some people just like an easy target. So no, I wouldn’t ask someone to move their child so I could sit down. Children are people too and you don’t know their circumstances. Sorry you had to stand, it’s annoying but it happens if transport is busy.

I would try to convince my child, but realistically there is no chance my 3yo would agree to seat on my laps. And that's not a battle I would be ready to fight on a train...

Mumsnet is a very strange magnet for people who are anti-children.