Children having their own seat on a packed train.

The problem of course is that, much as people might like to dig in their heels, no one really wants to sit next to an unaccompanied 3yo.

I agree completely about compassion and care for others, but I also don't want to raise my child to believe that they must automatically defer to any adult who makes a demand of them and I want them to grow up with confidence and positive self esteem which involves believing you are entitled to take up some space in this world.

As far as I can tell from this thread, op is (unless I'm wrong) an able bodied adult who has felt entitled to a seat occupied by a young child when she has no idea of that child or parents circumstances, the day they've had, invisible health conditions they may have etc. I think often people expect children to make space for them or become smaller/quieter/ more compliant etc to suit them but we don't expect this of any other adult and really, that's because children are very, very convenient to expect this of because we can exert power over them and they are so much less able to advocate for themselves. And I think that's really sad and is why as a society I'm glad that more people are starting to have a more child centered approach. I think we're very far behind a lot of other countries in that respect and it plays out in other areas relating to child wellbeing. There's a balance between teaching your child to be helpful to others, while still teaching them that actually their needs are also important and its OK for them to advocate for themselves no matter who that's with.

With what authority? Do you usually go around demanding people give up their seats for you?

So just to check when you pay to reserve the aisle seat you want on an airplane but a family with small kids comes along who haven’t booked in advance and now need to sit together as kid is too small to sit alone then you wouldn’t be rude and entitled but would graciously move to a less comfortable middle seat to facilitate them? Or in that case you’d think they should have been better organised and booked seats together if that was what they wanted? Just curious

I wouldn’t expect them to do that. If they want to, that’s fine, but kids are people too, and if they have a seat, they have a seat.

Hmm, aren’t the adults expecting someone to move so they can have a seat the selfish ones?

The other thing is, if you raise your kids to be considerate to others, I find they grow up popular. Who wants to raise selfish adults with sharp elbows and a “why should I “ attitude. That attitude is seen by others.

Surely that depends on the journey as well as the ability of the parent as others have pointed out what about a mum who's a few weeks past a section, or other abdominal surgery? The first train stop from our station where I live to the next is just under an hour, do you expect my almost 3 year old (who is the size of a 4/5 Yr old) to sit on my knee for that length of time? Plus bags?

Why would an able bodied adult need a seat more than a vulnerable, small 3 year old?

How ridiculous that a 3 year old gets their own seat,whilst adults stand! Children now are brought up to be rude and entitled,not taught any manners.I would have told the adult to move the child,no pandering from me.

Why on earth wouldn’t you believe them & why on earth would you expect people wouldn’t do it if it allowed them to travel more comfortably? Child tickets are not that expensive anyway and with a family railcard it was sometimes actually cheaper to buy 2 tickets than one standard adult one. I mean I wouldn’t have got them a ticket for a short ride on a bus or the local train that’s maybe 20-30 mins max but travelling further I absolutely always did. I’m amazed anyone wouldn’t get small kids a ticket and reserve seats for a 1 hour plus journey (particularly if they use trains regularly so railcard cost is minimal per journey). If you look in future see how many families sitting with small kids are in reserved seats? That would give you a decent idea how many are paying for tickets. I know no one among my friends or school mum group that uses trains for holidays, visiting family etc that didn’t get a friends & family railcard as soon as their kid was big enough to sit on a seat. Some even got one while they were babies and had them on the seat in their car seats 🤷🏼‍♀️

I wouldn’t just to avoid the unpleasantness that may ensue, but when mine were that little I would take them on my lap so an adult could sit down. I think parents can manage a slight discomfort - a ‘wriggly child’ is not really that big a deal. But hardly anyone seems to do that anymore unfortunately.

I agree 3 is too little.

I think this is fair to do once they reach a certain age and I would do the same with my ds when he is older, but 3 is in my opinion too little.

"Every t&c for every transport company clearly says if your child can’t sit on your lap you need to pay for their ticket."

Actually this seems to be specific to the rail company. Never did i think I would care this much, but I have trawled our local rail providers website, passenger charter and policies and I have found absolutely nothing to this effect relating to young children. However you also cannot book specific seats on trains here, they are very much first come first served.

I would have moved my 3 year old onto my lap, if I was able to in cramped conditions with bags etc. But I wouldn't be furious about someone else not doing so as they could have good reasons for not doing so. I had major abdominal surgery last year and no way could I have had my heavy toddler on my lap for a train journey, not even months afterwards.

For me it isn’t about money. My children were taught to stand up for the elderly of both sexes and people with disabilities or otherwise struggling. Also pregnant women or those with small children and babies. It’s just common decency. I know for sure that they do it automatically as young adults, and see the point of it. It’s no big deal and doesn’t need over dissecting.

I’d say the entitled brats here are those who expect a child to move so that they can sit.

I wonder how they were brought up?

As I mentioned earlier this depends where in the UK you are then because where I live, over 65s travel completely free. There are also specially designated seats which state that if someone older, disabled or pregnant needs a seat and you are in that seat you must give it up unless you fall into one of those categories yourself.

"Like lots of older people I don’t want to stay at home 24/7, but without knowing I can sit on a journey, I’m less likely to venture far." I completely understand and empathise with this, but you could also apply this to parents, particularly mothers who may be more isolated while on maternity leave or out of work due to caring responsibilities if they know they won't be able to safely accommodate their children on a journey, especially if they are travelling with more than one. Especially if they are a mother with mobility issues. Or travelling with a child who has SEN or experience of trauma etc.

"And you think a three year old should give up a seat for you instead of a healthy adult?"

I also agree with this, any able bodied adult in this secario should know to volunteer to stand given they will also know how to do so safely on a moving train and while others are moving around them.

So to take that into account, what if a child was travelling with a foster parent or adoptive parent where it would be completely inappropriate and may feel very unsafe for that child to sit on the adults lap? Obviously in that scenario the person demanding the child's seat is in no way entitled to that child's history or background. So the parent or carer would quite simply have to say no. People on this thread seem to be forgetting that there will always be circumstances where it won't be appropriate for a child to sit on a parent or carers lap and people do not need to justify that to a stranger just because they feel entitled to a seat (which they wouldn't be entitled to even if the train was full of only adults and no children were even on it).

Perhaps we should all be asking why rail services aren't sufficient for more people to sit anyway, regardless of age?

Well it was on the overground anyway so no you can't reserve a seat. Also what a massive drip feed!
I would really struggle to keep my large 3 year old on my lap safely on one of those overground seats with it suddenly stop starting etc.

I think you pay for the transport rather than the seat - different scenario if you have paid for a specific seat but I dont think the OP had done that?

I think you pay for the transport rather than the seat - different scenario if you have paid for a specific seat but I dont think the OP had done that?

Are you saying there is a difference rule as to length of journey?