Freedom of speech isn't tolerated by some

I despise guns. But if I had to move to America today, with my family, I would want a gun to protect them. Because they have gone too far. Guns are everywhere.

‘Let’s also be clear, it’s not just a political assassination but a religious one. He stood for living a Christian life and was a religious man.’

he was a religious bigot - openly homophobic, openly Islamophobic, wanted to see civil rights subservient to his extreme Christian nationalist views, thought women should submit to their husbands, thought the Civil Rights Act was a ‘mistake’ …none of the real Christians I know hold anything near these extreme views

a ‘religious man’? That’s questionable at best. A self serving man - definitely.

Did he deserve to be murdered? Of course not.

Sick.

I know you’re being facetious, but people are capable of holding principles, unmotivated by self-interest.

No, but there is obviously the chance that will be the outcome. And it is the outcome for over 45,000 people in the US each year. 45,000.

I think that if you believe that everyone has a right to carry a gun, then you are accepting you are more likely to be shot than if you adopt a view that gun ownership should be restricted for public safety.

You may not like to put it that way, because then you sound like a dick.

Personally I think UK gun laws are still far too lax. But that's another matter.

Yes, there's been some reaching to justify all this, including the selective extraction of Kirk's quotes. I suppose they have to be careful in not breaking talk guidelines but the damage was already done on those two threads. I've PMed you x

Whatever your own political leanings, this was a man who wanted to talk and debate difficult issues and that was the purpose of his rally at Utah yesterday.

We don't know the motivations of his assassin, we may never know them.

But he was assassinated for speaking and that's an attack on democracy.

Anyone who celebrates this or makes comments like 'you live by the sword' need to think what they are saying here. He was killed for his expressing his opinions while he was expressing his opinions. Someone wanted to stop him speaking. If you disagree with what someone is saying then we should encourage debate not shutting them up.

When people treat words as 'literal violence' and call people with views they don't agree with Nazi's or Fascists then this is the result.

The far right and the far left are both intolerant.

No one should die for holding the wrong views. No one.

Where were all the posts/comments when Melissa Hortman and husband were shot? Also political. But it passed with barely a whisper compared to this.

I find it ironic that everyone is talking about 'violence is never ok' when the guy who got shot literally said a few gun-related deaths a year is worth upholding the second amendment and didn't support new gun laws.

I do feel awful for his children and his family, but I'm darned if I'm going to support people who are only now talking about guns/shooting/tragic loss of life when we've seen thousands of CHILDREN being shot and still nothing is done to change the law. Yes, his death is horrific, so how about changing those gun laws and while you're at it, putting more resources into mental health support, community support, education, health in general etc – all things that would create a better functioning society that helps each other rather than shoots/fights each other.

Wanting to preserve the constitutional right to bear arms doesn’t mean you want to be murdered…

It's an idiotic comparison. A short skirt provokes nothing. Rapists will rape whatever you are wearing. Wearing a short skirt does not cause the proliferation of predatory men.

On the other hand, if you campaign for the population to have unfettered access to lethal weapons, you are responsible for the proliferation of said weapons and there is therefore a causal link if one gets used. If lethal weapons were harder to obtain (as they are in most countries) then he may well be alive today.

No he didn’t. Why lie? You think you’re being taken seriously when you make such silly statements?

Hear hear.

I can’t mourn the death of a man who thought that school shootings were the price to pay for American’s being allowed to carry guns being killed with a gun but no-one should be murdered for their political views. Regardless of how distasteful those views are.

When people said that words are ‘literal violence’ - this is the end result. And it’s terrible. We’re no longer civilised human beings. If words are off limits, if people are stripped of the ability to communicate with another human being, there’s nothing left except actual, physical violence.

😆 🤣

I was responding to someone, if that wasn't you, move along.

Yet he never seemed at all open to changing his own opinion. He has said some pretty extreme racist and misogynist things. Posters saying people should show respect and he didn't deserve to be killed (which is absolutely correct), what is your view on Kirk's comments about collateral gun death?

'You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am, I, I — I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.'

Little respect and sympathy there for victims of gun crime. I don't know, maybe he would have changed his mind if one of his own children was involved in a school shooting. You don't generally hear of the parents of children killed in school shootings demanding more guns.

They are referring to an earlier post

Wishing14 · Today 09:25

Let’s also be clear, it’s not just a political assassination but a religious one. He stood for living a Christian life and was a religious man.

So do other people, are we allowed to talk about that, without being called racist?

I didn't see any evidence of his dividing people, in that video clip. Quite the opposite.

He did though

Oh fgs. Strictly speaking America wouldn't know "left" if it danced in front of them naked. They have right, centre right, far right, with a teeny tiny version of left wing. This whole split into right and left is bullshit meant to divide and conquer. Unfortunately it's working.

To be clear, the shooting was wrong - as is any murder. I have zero respect for the man himself. But I feel sorry for his family, and for the loss of the life he could and should have had. Unfortunately separating people into categories like fighting dogs and seeking to "own" the other side in public staged "showdowns" is a dick move that - perhaps - cost him his life. We actually don't know motive yet. I support freedom of speech AND can be annoyed by how glibly the people in office claim it while oppressing free speech left right and center, usually backed by some version of "God" they made up.

Charlie Kirk was absolutely entitled to his views. He did not deserve to be shot, because nobody does.

That doesn't mean we all have to weep for him. We are allowed to say it when we feel his views were abhorrent- this is the man who told Taylor Swift to 'submit to her husband' <vom>, and who felt the deaths of children were a fair price to pay for the right to carry a gun.

He was free to say what he did. I hope the person who killed him is caught, as I would say for any murderer. But people are also free to say how they feel about the man he was. It cuts both ways.