Page 16 | Freedom of speech isn't tolerated by some

octaviaduarte · 11/09/2025 12:16

Zov · 11/09/2025 11:18

This. ^ The tedious and continual threads bashing the England flags and anyone who flies them are boring me so much now that I just instantly hide them. Literally CBA to debate with such narrow minded people, who refuse to see anyone else's point of view but their own, and try and shout anyone down who DARES to have anything other than a left wing opinion.

I have seen 1 to 2 threads a DAY bleating about 'The Flags' for the past 2-3 weeks, and they all say the same thing. How many fucking threads does one subject need FFS?!

If there's one thing 'The Left' hate, it's ANYone who doesn't think the same as them ... They do NOT believe in free speech, for anyone (except themselves!)

They live in a leftie echo chamber, and scream 'racist,' 'bigot,' and 'thick as mince' at anyone who is not left wing. It's just white noise now, and I can't take anything they say seriously.

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Totally agree. They are such snobs too and don't see the irony in berating the working class for daring to have an unapproved opinion, whilst pretending to champion socialist ideals about class.

DdraigGoch · 11/09/2025 12:16

WhatNextBanana · 11/09/2025 10:53

I've posted on other threads previously regarding gun shooting. I didn't hear the story of Melissa Hortman. Did you set up a thread? If so, I'll look for it and post in a similar manner that violence is not ok.

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Ask yourself why the murder of a minor celebrity with no public position has been all over the front pages, with flags lowered the half-staff on Federal buildings; yet the murder and attempted murder of two respected public servants, their spouses and dog (not to mention a long hit list of intended future targets, all political) got a fraction of the attention. Why?

JHound · 11/09/2025 12:13

WhatNextBanana · 10/09/2025 22:58

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/09/10/charlie-kirks-shooting-terrible-moment-american-democracy/

Political violence on the rise.

People are getting angry when people have Political views they don't agree with. Freedom of speech must be allowed not shutdown.

Tragic news of a young family man shot by someone today. Please remember he was a human with a family. Violence is never ok.

There is nobody in custody and no known motive.

As such to make this about “Free Speech” is ridiculous.

smallpinecone · 11/09/2025 12:12

Nagginthenag · 11/09/2025 12:05

So literally nothing is off the table? Incitement to rape, murder, sexually abuse children. Open discussion of paedophilia and how to go about it? All that is acceptable in the name of free speech?

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That isn’t what I said, and you know it. Why be so disingenuous?

Why do you think we’ve reached the point in human civilisation that these things are wrong and bad if they haven’t been talked about?

What do you propose? We hide bad ideas away to fester, or expose them to sunlight? Do you think problems disappear if people ignore them, don’t talk about them, don’t communicate?

KnitFastDieWarm · 11/09/2025 12:11

‘when people talk about freedom of speech what they generally mean is that they should be allowed to hold and express any abhorrent views they choose without consequence.’

The consequences of expressing opinions should be people disagreeing with you. Not people summarily executing you in public.

I would have thought that was obvious and fundamental in a civilised society.

Sevenamcoffee · 11/09/2025 12:06

Nagginthenag · 11/09/2025 11:50

Does freedom of speech just mean anyone can say anything they like? I mean, it does seem to be the case, especially on social media tbh.

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Freedom of speech absolutists would say that yes, anyone should be able to say anything they like regardless of any consequences to anyone else, and that this is necessary for democracy. The other argument is that freedom of speech is a fundamental right in a democracy but it should be considered in relation to other rights. In the same way that we all have a fundamental right to liberty of movement, until we don’t because we’ve been robbing someone else’s house or whatever.

DdraigGoch · 11/09/2025 12:06

smallpinecone · 11/09/2025 10:46

Wanting to preserve the constitutional right to bear arms doesn’t mean you want to be murdered…

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Do you oversimplify everything? That's not what I said, is it?

Humans (as a whole) cannot be trusted with lethal weapons. The more lethal weapons there are in society the more opportunities there are for a wrong 'un to get hold of one and use it. So if you campaign for policies that permit the proliferation of lethal weapons you have made it easier for a nutter to get hold of one and use it.

Nagginthenag · 11/09/2025 12:05

smallpinecone · 11/09/2025 12:02

If you are not free to voice your thoughts, and listen to others voice theirs, you’ll never grow, progress, or learn.

When you stifle speech, you’re inhibiting the ability to think. You become an unquestioning robot, churning out the ‘correct’ opinions you’re required to have that involve no deeper thought or introspection or understanding on your part. Why do you believe the things you believe? Can you defend your positions, or is it because someone told you that those are the correct opinions to hold?

If you’re not free to speak, in what way are you a free human being? What makes a human being unique other than their mind?

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So literally nothing is off the table? Incitement to rape, murder, sexually abuse children. Open discussion of paedophilia and how to go about it? All that is acceptable in the name of free speech?

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smallpinecone · 11/09/2025 12:02

Nagginthenag · 11/09/2025 11:50

Does freedom of speech just mean anyone can say anything they like? I mean, it does seem to be the case, especially on social media tbh.

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If you are not free to voice your thoughts, and listen to others voice theirs, you’ll never grow, progress, or learn.

When you stifle speech, you’re inhibiting the ability to think. You become an unquestioning robot, churning out the ‘correct’ opinions you’re required to have that involve no deeper thought or introspection or understanding on your part. Why do you believe the things you believe? Can you defend your positions, or is it because someone told you that those are the correct opinions to hold?

If you’re not free to speak, in what way are you a free human being? What makes a human being unique other than their mind?

Auroraloves · 11/09/2025 12:02

Zov · 11/09/2025 11:18

This. ^ The tedious and continual threads bashing the England flags and anyone who flies them are boring me so much now that I just instantly hide them. Literally CBA to debate with such narrow minded people, who refuse to see anyone else's point of view but their own, and try and shout anyone down who DARES to have anything other than a left wing opinion.

I have seen 1 to 2 threads a DAY bleating about 'The Flags' for the past 2-3 weeks, and they all say the same thing. How many fucking threads does one subject need FFS?!

If there's one thing 'The Left' hate, it's ANYone who doesn't think the same as them ... They do NOT believe in free speech, for anyone (except themselves!)

They live in a leftie echo chamber, and scream 'racist,' 'bigot,' and 'thick as mince' at anyone who is not left wing. It's just white noise now, and I can't take anything they say seriously.

.

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couldn’t agree more ❤️

pointythings · 11/09/2025 12:00

CaroleLandis · 11/09/2025 11:47

Freedom of speech has never been tolerated by the Left.

Or the right. Extremism thrives on silencing people. But let's not pretend one side is better than the other.

pointythings · 11/09/2025 11:58

WhatNextBanana · 11/09/2025 11:44

I've just checked there are no threads about Melissa Hortman being shot. It appears you didn't care enough to set one up but moan if someone sets a thread up about someone else.

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It was discussed at length on the Trump threads.

pointythings · 11/09/2025 11:57

Dangermoos · 11/09/2025 11:43

It's never anyone else to blame, is it?

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What now? The killer is to blame here. Obviously.

I hope they don't get the death penalty, but only because I am opposed to the death penalty in all cases. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Auroraloves · 11/09/2025 11:57

DdraigGoch · 11/09/2025 11:16

So you accept that it is a guess then. Not "fact" as you were claiming. Yes, it could be someone with a political motivation. But that doesn't mean that you can call guesses "fact" until we know more.

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The fact I was talking about was the fact that he was murdered in such a brutal way. Absolutely awful.

Whatafustercluck · 11/09/2025 11:57

Zov · 11/09/2025 11:18

This. ^ The tedious and continual threads bashing the England flags and anyone who flies them are boring me so much now that I just instantly hide them. Literally CBA to debate with such narrow minded people, who refuse to see anyone else's point of view but their own, and try and shout anyone down who DARES to have anything other than a left wing opinion.

I have seen 1 to 2 threads a DAY bleating about 'The Flags' for the past 2-3 weeks, and they all say the same thing. How many fucking threads does one subject need FFS?!

If there's one thing 'The Left' hate, it's ANYone who doesn't think the same as them ... They do NOT believe in free speech, for anyone (except themselves!)

They live in a leftie echo chamber, and scream 'racist,' 'bigot,' and 'thick as mince' at anyone who is not left wing. It's just white noise now, and I can't take anything they say seriously.

.

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Just 'The Left'? Plenty of politicians on 'The Right' bang on about free speech, but then do things like banning news agencies from media briefings etc. Farage was taken to task just a short while ago for doing precisely this - shutting down reasoned, rational debate. The Right's attempt to paint themselves as innocent victims of some kind of tsunami of wokeness and cancel culture is pretty pitiful tbh.

phoenixrosehere · 11/09/2025 11:52

ForeverScout · 11/09/2025 10:51

This was his trademark - set up "debates" (but wouldn't debate people who could hold their own calmly and logically, I do wonder if that's why he chose younger people), rage-bait people til they lose their cool, cut those clips into slick videos to post himself "owning the libs". Whatever happened on the campus today didn't have the chance to be cut into a viral video to push into certain algorithms. And I do know those algorithms because they show up in my 14yo son's stuff but not mine. It's pushed to specific people.

It's amazing how blind we are to the radicalisation happening in real time on all parts of the political spectrum. CK struck me as someone making bank out of it, and unfortunately it went terribly wrong.

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CK struck me as someone making bank out of it, and unfortunately it went terribly wrong.

Same and most of the debates I saw of him, he constantly interrupted and talked over people, repeated himself when the other person was more experienced and knowledgeable than him because he didn’t get it and wouldn’t let them answer when they would elaborate. Seemed to me he was buffering like a bot at times when someone had a well-thought out and reasonable view as if he was struggling to compute what they said.

smallpinecone · 11/09/2025 11:52

“It's a universal law-- intolerance is the first sign of an inadequate education. An ill-educated person behaves with arrogant impatience, whereas truly profound education breeds humility.”

Dangermoos · 11/09/2025 11:51

CaroleLandis · 11/09/2025 11:47

Freedom of speech has never been tolerated by the Left.

Well I've just been informed by MN that I've been brought to their attention. Happy to have posts deleted if they have been reported. Over to them to deal with this shit show.

Nagginthenag · 11/09/2025 11:50

CaroleLandis · 11/09/2025 11:47

Freedom of speech has never been tolerated by the Left.

Does freedom of speech just mean anyone can say anything they like? I mean, it does seem to be the case, especially on social media tbh.

CaroleLandis · 11/09/2025 11:47

Freedom of speech has never been tolerated by the Left.

ForeverScout · 11/09/2025 11:47

Anyway I'm off. I suspect my time is better used on the supernatural adventure-but-really-just-an-excuse-to-write-hot-superpower-sex novel I'm partway through reading (though when the main characters lose their powers - and they will - I feel like their connection will lose all meaning because it'll all just be boring in comparison. Waiting to see how the author resolves that). It's exactly the type of thing that would have "out, Satan" yelled at me in church which makes it all the more fun.

Dangermoos · 11/09/2025 11:46

Well done @MNHQ for just deleting another dodgy thread. You must be working overtime.

EasternStandard · 11/09/2025 11:46

nomas · 11/09/2025 11:36

It wouldn't surprise me if the far right killed him as a strategy to inflame tensions.

The US has a history of killing its own people.

There’s no point in spreading baseless stuff, it’s just more misinformation.

Original poster

WhatNextBanana · 11/09/2025 11:44

GreensAreGoodForYou · 11/09/2025 10:47

Where were all the posts/comments when Melissa Hortman and husband were shot? Also political. But it passed with barely a whisper compared to this.

I find it ironic that everyone is talking about 'violence is never ok' when the guy who got shot literally said a few gun-related deaths a year is worth upholding the second amendment and didn't support new gun laws.

I do feel awful for his children and his family, but I'm darned if I'm going to support people who are only now talking about guns/shooting/tragic loss of life when we've seen thousands of CHILDREN being shot and still nothing is done to change the law. Yes, his death is horrific, so how about changing those gun laws and while you're at it, putting more resources into mental health support, community support, education, health in general etc – all things that would create a better functioning society that helps each other rather than shoots/fights each other.

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I've just checked there are no threads about Melissa Hortman being shot. It appears you didn't care enough to set one up but moan if someone sets a thread up about someone else.

OP posts:

octaviaduarte · 11/09/2025 11:43

cassandre · 10/09/2025 23:42

To say he held abhorrent views is a stretch

Oh, he held abhorrent views all right. From the Wikipedia page:
Kirk advocated for parents to never let their daughters receive prescriptions for birth control medication for any reason. He claimed that the medication makes women angry and bitter, which he alleged suited the political leanings of the Democratic Party.

And he spread a hell of a lot of misinformation. Again, the Wiki page is an informative read.

The irony of you talking about "misinformation" and then quoting Wiki 🙄 .