To wonder how on Earth Mandelson can carry on and how the Prime Minister can back him?

Yes. He'd been sentenced and Mandelson was conveyng his sympathy saying how unfairly JE had been treated by the law.

You didn’t though, you asked if the other chap was under suspicion when the messages were sent.

No I hadn't.

Hence I asked the question.

I wasn't aware I couldn't educate myself here.

Have you read the content of the messages? He was clearly involved, it’s not just that he associated with Epstein.

And zero charisma.
Can’t they get him some media training ffs?!

You might want to catch up on Bozo's interesting financial machinations both in office and since. He's lucky there are more newsworthy stories at the moment and nobody's paying any attention to the expose in the Guardian. The depressing. thing is that we've become so inured to base politicians that the 'revelations' are exactly what we've come to expect. Club life. We're not in it.

The utter hypocrisy is astounding.
Boris Johnson was absolutely and rightly exposed for allowing a donor to pay for wallpaper and redecoration of Nos 10. Starmer & Co accept multiple gifts of clothes, free holidays, apartments, etc. But apparently “it’s different” when it’s Labour (or a right wing press conspiracy)

Boris Johnson backs both Zahawi and Hunt - the first of whom self refers (as Rayner did) and admits his taxes aren’t right and resigns (as Rayner did) and Hunt is proven to have followed the law (as Rayner did in the first housing “issue”) but its Tory sleeze and “different” with a million excuses when Starmer backs the bloody housing minister who apparently “made an innocent mistake” about umm…. Housing laws because she’s so busy/has a disabled son / don’t take the right advice (insert other excuse)
Boris Johnson ‘backed’ Chris Pincher despite evidence that he had sexually assaulted people by “groping” them and it’s such an error of judgement that it actually ends his term as PM. Starmer actually fucking appoints someone who was Epstein’s “best pal” and is in contact with him & supports him after he’s been convicted of child abuse and trafficking which Starmer would have absolutely known …. due to the “thorough” vetting process so he said but now actually he’s fired.
It’s unbelievably ridiculous. Johnson was an absolute disgrace but it’s is absolutely clear that Starmer & the Labour Party are EXACTLY the same and yet the left bleat in how it’s “not the same”
it’s exactly the fucking same and instead of holding him and them to account, the tribalism is so ingrained that black is now white
I despair

Ive met him a couple of times he is so dislikeable. A similar vile vibe to Farage (who I have also had the displeasure meeting). Snakelike and beady eyed.

Well, let’s just say he has a certain disrespect and disdain for women. When talking to me he was spitting when talking. That, or it was sperm 🤮

I think Keir Starmer's advisers must hate him. Look at this Mandelson rubbish it's going to go on and on like Rayner's tale. His communications team must hate him too. Nobody in No 10 seems to have any idea of the need to manage the story and how things escalate if you let it run. It's exasperating, bloody incompetent and unnecessary.

TBH I was astounded when he was appointed ambassador to Washington. He had always struck me as sleazy, and to me it cast a lot of doubt on Starmer’s judgement. Though it did occur to me that he just wanted Mandelson out of the way, but then you’d think he’d have sent him somewhere a lot more far flung and comparatively less significant!

In any case, IMO Starmer showed yet more weakness in not sacking him 24 hours sooner.

This debacle really weakens Starmer. He has no political instincts. Mandy himself in his interview with The Sun said more would come out, including emails. Wasn't this, Prince Andrew's banishment, and the close and loving link with a convicted paedophile enough to show him (and Ms Cooper) that he needed booting out?

I think there's worse to come over the weekend to be honest. Brace yourselves, a lot more embarrassing and cringe worthy communications will be released for the Sunday papers.

Of course he wanted to stay on. Mandelson loves proximity to power and money. There's nothing a very rich man, like Trump or Putin, loves more than flattery and Mandelson's an expert, as you can see from his slavering emails to Epstein. God, these people are awful and they demand our admiration. No wonder they're susceptible to being schmoozed and believe everyone really does admire them. Look at the people surrounding Trump. Who'd choose it if they didn't have an agenda of their own? Who's next for the poisoned chalice?

Revolting too that he (Mandelson) is reported to have wanted to stay on.

Starmer left it too late to manage to salvage any kind of credibility in this latest shambles.

What an odious bastard Mandelson is, sick of him and his ilk being allowed to have any kind of power or influence. Bastards, the lot of them.

So, Starmer has recalled Mandelson now, in a desperate move to save face for himself, as it was only hours ago that Starmer was apparently fully supporting his Ambassador to the USA.
When the PM says he is fully supporting you, every politician must know that they are about to have the rug pulled from under their feet!

By not waiting for Mandelson to resign, Starmer must be hoping his action will make him look more decisive and in control than he did when Angela resigned, but it's too late for that.
Angela last week, Mandy this week, who is it going to be next week in this car crash of a government?

He can’t. And Starmer only has himself to blame for this fiasco. Everyone knows Mandelson’s record. For decades he has been a fawning sycophantic groupie to criminal billionaires. He was forced to resign from government twice because of his corrupt links to them. And now he will be forced out for a third time, which says as much about Starmer’s lack of judgement as it does about Mandelson’s lack of integrity.

I suspect you are right. He was pals with the whole Epstein/Trump gang and understands Trump better than most.

He was appointed as ambassador BECAUSE of this, his willingness to befriend perverts is well know! If Stamer sacks him Trump will be livid as it exposes him further. Blair knew what Epstein was up to and did nothing, everyone knew!

Both, I think.

Neah... I'm in the minority who thinks Mandelsohn doesn't have to resign. Not that I really care.... Epstein would have said he only claimed guilty in 2008 to get rid of an expensive problem, not that he actually did anything bad. And I don't believe in guilt by association.

Epstein must have been super charming and persuasive. And Maxwell ( May she rot in jail forever). A huge number of famous people were their friends and had very warm feelings towards them. Did their buckets of money make them charming or were they personally truly very charismatic and amiable? Maybe I could stomach watching a video of some interviews around 2005 to try to understand what made so many people hugely like them...

My theory is that very persuasive people are themselves very persuadable. they immediately engage with other persuasive people. Mandelsohn is a smooth operator, persuasive, so was Epstein, so was Maxwell...

I think the idea with his position as Ambassador was that he had so much dirt on Trump (and others) and already had those contacts, so it put us in a strong position. It's all careful diplomacy.

But I agree, he does now need to go. And god, how depressing it is to see how the world is run - rich, powerful men schmoozing each other in quite sickening ways, taking what they want and using people for whatever they can get.

I don't think Starmer is anything like this. He seems like a quiet, intelligent, decent man, but with no sense of the wider public view (or being very badly advised).

He'll have to go, Starmer would do well just to get on with it.