Teacher told my child that child is not a Muslim

OP is a teacher too 😏

I guess she meant no child is a Muslim or Christian or Buddhist (or atheist or pantheist or anything else). It’s their parents who are. The child isn’t old enough the decide what they believe.

I have heard this argument made by people like Richard Dawkins. The idea is that adults have no right to impose religious beliefs on a child. In fact, it should be considered a form of abuse, especially when it involves terrifying the child with visions of hell and divine punishment.

My reception child has told me since he started school last week

• a bird flew out of the toilet
• miss lets him have 4 puddings everyday
• they do nothing but watch pokemon
• the TA slipped on a poo in the toilet
• all of another child's teeth fell out
• the head teacher only ever talks about Jesus all day (she said a prayer at assembly)

my point being why would you believe her?

@Jkam24 - the question in your final sentence? A) because you're Moslem, and B) because this is Mumsnet which has some not insignificant Islamaphobia.

That is weird. If she had told my kids they weren't Christian and they'd replied they'd been baptised, what would she had said? No, you've not been baptised (obviously not true), or Yes you've been baptised, but your minister is wrong, it doesn't make you part of the Christian church? (mega-confusing for the child).

At the age of 4, my kids had been in church for many baptisms, so they knew what it was, and that they'd been baptised themselves.

Op this really is out of order, I actually do think you need to escalate it. It’s a terrible thing to say to a child and then defend to the parent. I’d wonder what she was like as a teacher tbh, I mean who in the world does this.

Wow the Islamophobia in this thread is wild. If people only bothered to learn the true values of Islam. So much purposeful misinterpretation of the OPs original question. Obviously it’s outrageous for a teacher to say that. The daughter presumably asked the question at home, after being told something different to what she believed, by a person in a supposed position of trust.

Wow I can’t believe the teacher said that- so inappropriate. Did she apologise to you OP? If I were you I would raise this further I think as this teacher needs some cultural awareness training.

Hi OP, sorry you and your child are having to deal with this. And horrible people on here! Don't mind them. Teacher was completely being unreasonable and you were right to question it. And to take it further. It's not for the teacher to decide and say. That's like denying your child's faith and beliefs. In Islam children are born into the faith whereas in Christianity it's decided by the child themselves when they are old enough to decide I believe. You could address this further I feel as the teacher may not respect your wishes going forward, if you say child can't eat xyz as it's not appropriate or your child is excited about celebrating Eid. And you shouldn't be made to feel you can't speak out and made to carry this. This teacher needs training around diversity perhaps tbh even if she meant it in a non-offensive away. Probably won't be the last you have of these experiences!

How about you read OP’s updates? There is a feature allowing you to filter just the OP’s posts and read them. Really easy.

My four year old once told me an in depth story of how he was being bullied at school.

I spoke to the Principal and much later found out it was a complete and utter fabrication.

I’m not sure how old your daughter is - but in my child’s age lying is a developmental milestone. As he was delayed with his development we had skipped this milestone so the first time it emerged was when he told this story so I wasn’t prepared.

Ask the teacher what happened and keep an open mind as to what occurred.

Oh the teacher was very wrong and my problem would be that she approached this from a very wrong angle. You cant talk about things in life SO literally and SO philosophically. Of course children can have religion in terms that they are following family traditions. As in many other issues children just follow their family until certain age.
I can see OP why you don’t want to take it further, I hope it won’t affect your daughter’s enjoyment by school. Nothing worse than having a teacher without understanding and common sense in a reception.

Well yes.

I think I'd have suggested to her that while her view was a philosophically valid and reasonable one, that it wasn't appropriate or professional for that personal view to influence how she inter-acted with 4 year olds.

I think the OP has said she'll discuss it again with her. I'd want that further discussion before taking it further. I think...

I'm astonished that any teacher would behave like this - and I'm one of the people who thought the OP's child must have completely misunderstood the conversation

In that case I think you are right to be very annoyed. I was a Reception Teacher but have been retired for 10 years. There used to be something under the PHSE guidelines about respecting the cultures of other children (not necessarily about religion, could refer to other things) which would surely apply to teachers as well. Maybe things have changed but I doubt they've changed that much. She was absolutely wrong to say that even if that is her opinion.

Absolutely. I'd be furious. We have a mixed (largely non-practicing) religious family and my children are brought up to know both religions and to celebrate both traditions in as much as we celebrate them. I would be raging if a teacher expressed a personal belief in such a way.

TBH, as a member of a family full of teachers I am usually hesitant to escalate. But I would 100% escalate that to the HT.

i am astonished the teacher has said this to your child. As PP have mentioned, this is the teachers opinion- it wasn’t asked for, and it certainly needn’t have been shared with such a young child. And all of the posters who start their post with ‘I agree with the teacher but..’ save your own opinions for your own children. The OP didn’t ask your philosophical views- and I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if the shoe was on the other foot, and a teacher was telling your children a certain religion is the only truth.

Oh no not cake! That would blow my mind. All so confusing. I wonder if it still goes on, my experience was the 60s when I was a kid. My Orange family are from Northern Ireland, the other half from the south. I used to think it was so much simpler in the south but of course that was because the family I was visiting were all Catholics like me so nothing complicated to remember.

My Orange cousins found it really odd that I just didn't understand, my parents never discussed religion so I was blissfully unaware of what a big thing it was

What a ridiculous thing for the teacher to say. I do wonder whether she said something similar to all the children, or not

Op you are a teacher I am surprised you cannot see why you should take this to your child's ht. Its fine for the teacher to have her own thoughts about religion but totally wrong to be imposing them on young impressionable children. She needs a reminder of this or who knows what opinions she will be sharing as fact next

You are right, its totally not teachers business. But to be fair, so many people are islamophobic, its the same or worse than racism. I'm white so I can only imagine, don't judge me please. Anyway, I'm a Christian and married to a Muslim man, my daughter is being raised as Muslim because that's what me and my partner decided. However, I must say that my mom, who is Christian by birth, not even a practicing one (by this I mean she is only going to church for Christmas and Easter which makes 2x a year) has told me that "when my daughter grows up, she can decide for herself what her religion is). Some people are very insecure because they themselves are Christian but not true believers. Then they say things like "when they grow up they can decide". They must have heard about people converting from Cristianity from Islam and then preach that it could or should be the other way round - why don't people convert from Islam to Christianity? This Christian logic dies not make sense sonny Muslim because they have studied that their religion is a new one and has been created to correct faulted Christianity. Almost like Cristianity had errors in it and God has changed his mind. I respect Islam because ai have known my partner for 10 years and its amazing religion, but I am reluctant to change my religion because it feels unnatural to me and I dobt have an inclination. To be fair, nothing is forced in Islam, women are not forced to wear Hijabs, in so many muslim countries now I see lots of women in the street not wearing head covering, only dress modestly in any loose close not to be sexualised. This is a huge problem in modern world, that women are objectified in pop industry but they do it themselves and rename it female empowerment. Since my 20s I wanted to dress more elegant and classy myself but did not know how to do it, its so easy to buy short dresses and feel free and sexy doing it. But the problem is that this exposure really changes mens psychology, seeing half naked women everyday and combined with hookup culture they don't want to put the effort into maintaining a real close relationship. Women are choosing not to have as many children cause they know how easy it is for men to cheat nowadays, so any divorced families in our parents generation etc. Even sex trafficking has been increasing steadily over the recent years. Religion is so complex, I have known my in-laws for 10 years and even I still get judgmental from time to time when I get dysphoric premenstrual disorder. It's so so easy to judge women who cover up because of women's own internalised hate and knowing deep down that their self worth is shallow and based on male gaze and attention. I know I'm off topic, but during 10 years of my marriage ai have realised so many things that you cannot comprehend unless you are a Christian and have a Muslim spouse. Even in the beginning of our relationship, I think I only got involved because I was a very tolerant and open minded person, I hated my own father so I wanted to meet someone different on a subconscious level. It took 10 years of reprogramming my own islamophobic biases, so for someone who does not know any Muslims closely, it is impossible to be really truly accepting of Islam. We are recognising racism a lot more than islamophobia. Some people (even in my own Christian family) only like Muslims if they see them as really open minded, for example these muslims drink, don't wear Hijabs, get divorced, swear, are promiscuous etc.

Teacher here- please do put that in writing to the HT. That is totally unacceptable.
Did she apologise when you spoke to her? What did you say back to her when she said that?

@Jkam24

That a reception teacher even posed this question astonishes me.

Personally, I would escalate to the Head.

What the teacher said cannot surely be in the curriculum for such little ones?

Does the teacher have an agenda, do you think?

Teacher said she did say it because she doesn't think children can have a religion. I didn't say much but will have a think on how to move forward - it's ok for her to think that but not for her to say it, but I am not looking to get her into trouble, rather to clarify that stating this out loud to a child is beyond her position.

That a really odd take - though first primary my DC had was a C of E one and next one had kids with a range of relgious backgrounds.

I'd clarify with the school - as many relgions do have eating/culural practises that may crop up in school hours that could get overlooked with that stance.

I really think you should take this to the head, as a learning experience for the teacher not as a complaint or big argument with the school since you seem to be quite pragmatic and level headed about it.

The reason I would go to the head is that children can get very upset by this sort of thing, and she really cannot be teaching other children in the class to just cast aside religion when she should be teaching respect.

I also very much doubt that she would tell a Christian child they weren’t Christian or that she would question a child taking first communion on why they would do that when they can’t possible be catholic. I suspect she said it because of the specific religion… make of that what you will.

It is vital to feedback to the school when a teacher is spouting inappropriate views. You wouldn’t ignore a teacher trying to convert children into a religion so you shouldn’t ignore a teacher invalidating someone’s religion. It doesn’t mean that you need to go in all guns blazing with a complaint; just go in with an open discussion.

My concern would be that this teacher doesn't know much about 4 and 5 year olds.