To be annoyed that my employer won’t let me go part time?

Yeah, and every half way sensible suggestion is met with a “that won’t work” with no explanation. I call bullshit.

I think you need to tell them clearly that your role is a two day a week role. That you are overpaid and underemployed. Hit them from the money angle and they’ll cave. No one wants to be paying someone for 5 days unnecessarily.

I would ask for a meeting with your manager to see if a compromise can be made

Sorry but this feels like a massive drip feed. I can't believe you think it's reasonable to expect your employers to accept your rationale of 'I can do 5 days work in 2'. Seriously?

I recently dropped half a day, I am not a “head of” anything and I still had to make a case for how the work was going to be covered and how I wasn’t going to be passing on an extra burden to my colleagues because of it. Dropping 3 days straight off is pretty unheard of I think!

@Topoftheroof very kindly. I have not read the whole thread. Tried reading your posts.

I have just been involved in getting a message to someone, who, despite assistance given, is just thinking about her side.

-i am not clear if your request to go 2 days was accompanied by a request for less pay.
-i don’t think it read well, repeatedly telling everyone/er you can do your 5 day week in 2 days.
-I note you asked for a demotion- this shows you should be open to finding your 2 day job from a new employer.
-most importantly, you do not really say anything why you believe they are refusing- this is key.
-compare your thinking to their reasons in the rejection letter, and you will be closer to identifying your next steps.

• I understand the challenges involved with fostering including a 6 week old. We took in a 3 week old who is a double orphan. I subsequently adopted her in my early 20s. I also care for an adult relative needing 6 to so weeks at least once a year away from work.
• however, unless you believe your employer is being difficult for no reason, I believe for the 12 months, it is YOU and not them that should ‘manage’ the new situation. This is why I asked about pay. What stood out was that as you see senior, your pay should cover a live in nanny or whatever help you need for a year. Have you thought of this?
• as I said, you gave said a lot, but given away little. But thought to add my 2pw.
• yes, I agree that those other 2 day workers not at your level etc, are not comparable. They are actually irrelevant. You seem to place huge value on this, which is why you are surprised by your employer.
• good luck. Think it through and I am sure you will work something out.

You mention in one of your first posts they said they couldn’t live without you- if this is the case then call their bluff and quit then see their response

Can you afford a nanny?

I can see why your employer won't agree to two days. A senior member of the team needs to be around for more than two days. Your circumstances sound really tough but that really isn't your employer's problem. They have a duty of care to keep you safe at work. Your home life is nothing to do with your employer. They may agree to three or 3.5 days but two days is rarely workable. Good luck OP.

Oh dear heavens, OP, I fully understand you feel the ‘top’ 40% of your job needs you to do it but you have given your employers suggestions how to redistribute the 60%.

I understand your frustration that they say they ‘dread the day’ you would leave but don’t seem to grasp that day could be sooner if they can’t work with you to find a resolution for the next 3 (?) years.

I also understand you would need/want to have a ‘foot in the door’ employment option and income despite the Fostering income I presume you are in receipt of. Whether you gain SGOs for the children or not I expect you feel the need to still have a working career beyond the children. Your commitment to them is incredible but not the visceral one which overrides the rest of your life.

I was coming on to make sure you have checked all options here https://kinship.org.uk/support-and-advice/advice-and-information/time-off-work-for-kinship-carers/

Freelance, as others have suggested, might be an option. I can see you are considering ImAPreMadonna’s suggestions.

I sincerely wish you the all the best; Kinship Fostering and SG are incredible undertakings but you continuing to have a professional life will only enhance the children’s lives and understanding of the world.

PS. Ignore all the posters who haven't got a clue.

careful... if it can be done in 2, why would they pay you for 5?

Have you thought iof suggesting Job share?

If you're not saying your 5 day job can be done in 2, are you suggesting they just give 3 days of your work to others who already have their own workloads? Does that include your line management responsibilities? Are your team only to have a manger 2 days out of 5? I don't think I'd feel comfortable abandoning my team 60% of the week.

I worked for a horrendous woman who insisted I go full time, out of some kind of autocratic spite because she hated women with children.

I had only ever been 4 days per week. I had applied for the job 5 years prior and negotiated the 4 days from the outset.

I could have taken it via union/lawyers, but its really not my style, so instead I just applied for another internal job and handed in my notice.

As I was working my notice period, they started to realise how much I got done in 4 days and the panic mounted.

They ended up having to split my job into about 4 different new roles, all of which were difficult to fill. The most difficult of the 4 roles, managing the finance team, was an absolute car crash. One after anotger person went into the role and either left or went off sick with stress, then left.

The easiest of the jobs was essentially a "knowledge and expertise" job, that moved teams, paid the same as my old job, for at most 30% of what I used to do. The new department offered me that job on my old salary, on 3 days per week. 🤣🤣

I luxuriated in working for a nicer team, on almost as much money, doing much less work, with less stress.

I'd be tempted to do exactly what you've suggested. Apply for other internal roles!! Someone will be more than happy to give you a better deal.

@Topoftheroof - What you are doing in being a kinship carer for four children is absolutely brilliant. I used to work with someone who was doing the same for her brothers children - she took one on and then ended up with three! It is definitely something to be admired.

However, just because it is a kind and altruistic thing to do, doesn't mean that you should be put at a financial disadvantage, so have you checked that you are getting all of the fostering allowances and fees that you are entitled to?

As an absolute minimum you should be getting £170 per week per child in allowances and £165 per week per child in fees (although most LAs pay more than this). That's just under £6k a month for four children and should be tax free.

On top of this you may be able to claim universal credit as fostering allowances are not counted for the purposes of assessing UC claims.

If the LA are not asking you to stop working full time as part of the child's care plan, you are also entitled to free child-care which may increase the hours you are available to work.

Also - do you live in the same LA that have responsibility for the children? If so, check to see if they waive council tax for foster carers - many LAs do. If you don't live in the same LA or your LA doesn't offer it as standard, push for it anyway and check what else you may be able to claim for from them. Remember it would cost them a whole lot more to have to place four children in an external placement than with you and LAs do have some ability to pay additional discretionary expenses, if it means being able to keep the children in Kinship care rather than having to tie up an in-house carer or pay an IFA.

If you are going to go down the SGO route, check whether the LA offers parity and will continue to pay fees and allowances at the same level as the fostering fees and for how long (some LAs are now doing this until the child leaves care or turns 18). While SGO would absolutely be the best thing for the children, don't yield to the pressure to accept it if they won't continue the payments until the children are at least in school full time and you can return to work.

Speak to the Fostering Network and Fosterline and get their advice and support - they will be much better placed that randoms on Mumsnet to advise how to best approach you employer.

Speak to your employer about becoming a Foster Friendly organisation (https://www.thefosteringnetwork.org.uk/get-involved/fostering-friendly-employers/) - they may be willing to offer you some flexibility without having to formally go down to two days a week (shorter days / home working combined with free childcare) or some other flexibility around this

They can reject on 3 factors cost too much/arduous to implement, impact to operations, impact to quality.

HoD would never be reduced to 2 days a week kindly. Other junior roles, can, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

I would potentially reapply or appeal on the basis of 3 or 4 days which is more realistic, or less hours per day in current pattern if you want to compromise.

A Flexi request is about your current hours and working pattern. They'd not consider a different role for you.
If you want that apply for internal vacancies and do it that way!

They already have 2 part timers and need you there full time you're either going to have to find a new job, get yourself on UC or suck it up and make it work

If you really cannot cope and need some breathing space, I suggest you have a word with your GP..

Before you do that, gather any evidence/ contracts and have a word with unions / cab to make sure you know the likely outcome should you go long term Ill.

I was in a similar position requested drop to 3 days work said no it was quite a specialised job and I had evidenced could do it in 3 days as I did it for 6 months after mat leave using accrued annual leave. I simply said ok and left within 2 months they struggled for a long time after to fill the role

So in essence other people cover the work you’d do on the other 3 days? So they do more work for the same money and you get your way? How is that reasonable or fair?

But who do you expect to do the bits of your job that you’ve decided you don’t want to do? If you think the key parts of your role can be done in two days a week you must accept that there are other parts that you won’t be doing, and that work will need to be covered by someone else. Being brutal, your choice to foster so many children as a single person really isn’t your employer’s responsibility to deal with.

I really feel for you, when I went back after my maternity leave I applied to go back 2 days a week, to be honest thinking I’d prefer 3 but we can negotiate? I went to a meeting on site about a month before I was due to go back (this was pre Covid so no Teams or WFH) and the application form hadn’t even left my fingertips when they said no. They even asked me if I wanted them to formally respond to it in a “are you seriously going to actually officially apply for this?!” way.

I got the same fobbing off, the needs of the organisation need to be considered, it’s hard to find someone willing to do a job share these days. It was the NHS and people who I knew who were clinical insisted they couldn’t do that and were astounded that I’d been flat out rejected.

I appealed, I had to appeal to the chief exec, I had 2 weeks to appeal and I was relentless with chasing and pestering HR with what my options were and if I had 2 weeks to appeal how long did they have to respond? Dd is now 10, and I am still to this day waiting to hear the outcome of the appeal. They offered me a temporary phased return of 4 short days a week for 6 weeks (in a different department where I didn’t know the job or the people) and it sort of never got reviewed. Because of budgets and whatever they kept telling me they couldn’t continue to employ me to work there part time and then continue to employ my maternity cover person and so a couple of times I was pushed to apply for a full time job in this “new” department but never did, was constantly told that there wasn’t a job for me if I didn’t. I (it was risky and I was terrified) said they’d have to make me redundant then, or put me back in my old role and get rid of the new person doing it and I’d hand my notice in as soon as the other person was let go. I was a PA so it was just the one person doing that job.

After about 18 months someone I worked with in my “new” department had a baby and when they came back off maternity leave wanted to be part time, we job shared, I finally got a proper contract.

Appeal. Hold your nerve. If it’s causing you as much stress as you say do you need to visit your GP, what’s the sick pay like?