Have you ever been a bully? Why?

Sorry for typos in that - hope the main point comes across!

An incident from adult life has just come to mind. Years ago I trained as a Forest School leader and (after a year of study and practice )our assessment week was a residential, week-long event at an isolated outdoor centre. There were 6 of us being assessed by 2 tough, loud, no-nonsense women trainers.

I was pretty intimidated by them but I decided to just get on with it. But another lovely woman on the course was clearly a timid, gentle, sensitive character. Basically, they bullied her into the ground, which, considering that FS is all about build self-esteem and personal confidence, is somewhat ironic. Did I look at this person and think ‘God, she’s a pathetic specimen - I’m going to put the boot in!’ NO I BLOODY WELL DID NOT. I tried to support her but sadly there was a knock on my bedroom door on the 4th night (4 am) and she was there, all packed to go and in floods of tears. She was in pieces because of their constant mockery and belittling. I only made the mildest attempt to dissuade her from going because I knew it wouldn’t have ended well.

It’s not acceptable in any context to bullying someone because they’re weak, sensitive or timid and there’s never any excuse. I hate it when anyone tries to excuse bullying. Only 2 of the 7 adults present at that event came out as bullies - you can choose to do the right thing. They were just plain nasty women.

@NormasArse I imagine what you did to that poor boy will haunt you. It’s made me feel very sad.

Thank you!

I agree that some bullies later reflect and regret their behaviour, particularly when they have children themselves and the horrible thought dawns on them that their precious offspring might be bullied.

That’s all very well, but the terrible damage is done to the children they tormented and sometimes it has lifelong effects. I speak from personal experience.

That damage can’t easily be reversed. However the bully feels now, they have nevertheless destroyed another person’s self-esteem and self-image. They’ve tainted their childhood and youth with misery and those years won’t come back for a second chance.

And they didn’t have to do it. But they did it for fun. Their childhood and youth were fun as Saltandvinegar has bravely admitted.

I was a bully. On reflection, my reasons (not excuses) were - a shitty home life and I was jealous of others who had ‘normal’ families, my dad was a bully to my mum (and anyone else he didn’t like) so I wasn’t really brought up or encouraged to be ‘nice to others’ or consider feelings, and I was insecure about myself and an unhappy child.

My school was also pretty brutal - bully or be bullied mentality (and I was picked on too).

It still haunts to me to this day. All I can do now as an adult is everything in my power to make sure no one around me ever feels the way I made those kids feel.

I experienced cruelty myself at the various schools I went to, mockery over how I spoke, dressed, looked etc.

...And I was definitely, at times, mean and nasty to people at school. Combination of adolescent insecurity, wanting to be seen as funny because I figured I'd make that my "thing", a misplaced notion of whose admiration was "worth it" and whose wasn't, not the most consistent home life (one DP passed away when I was a kid, ensuing school changes and long-distance relocations, surviving DP remarried and we got sent to boarding school).

Would I have been less mean at points had I had a different childhood? Not sure. These factors no doubt fanned the flames, but maybe there'd have been other, different factors that elicited the same sort of behaviour.

By the age of 16 I'd grown out of it. But I regret so very much how I was to certain people and it's something I work hard on with my kids.

As I said in my previous post, I dont think I had a sad life, but I was definitely raised in an environment where bullying was the norm, so I didn't see it as wrong, just a way of dealing out natural justice.

It is unpalatable, but I think there is a sizeable subsection of society where intra-family bullying is considered an acceptable way to raise kids, and those kids then go out and spread that behaviour to schools.

At home I was a target (because I use words like intra-family) and if my cousins thought I was being annoying or nerdy it was fair game for them to wind me up, or "send me to Coventry" i.e. pretend I didnt exist for weeks on end. It was seen as an acceptable way of getting people to behave. My parents and aunts and uncles would have compared it to letting puppies fight it out.

It was only by going to a school where that behaviour was not tolerated, and there were instant repercussions for bullying that snapped me out of it.

Many years ago, I had a supervisor who freely admitted that he dealt with workplace stress by dumping it on people further down the food-chain. Needless to say, he wasn't very impressive as a manager and had we been bigger and less specialised, the state of our turnover would have damned him sooner than it did.

I don't know anything about his personal background. He was a well-qualified professional, young, not bad looking, plenty of reasons to count his blessings, but maybe there were things going on that I'd no idea about. All I knew is that it was a great day when I parted company from him.

I remember a teacher on mumsnet saying sometimes kids bully who have a bully parent. They pick on kids who behave or a look a certain way that would lead to their parent bullying them if they behaved or looked that way.

@saltandvinegar

Thing is, you do get some sociopathic little cunts who ignore every sanction up to - and possibly including - violent retaliation. You’ve described how you enjoyed causing distress. Unlike the PPs who seem convinced that people who behave like this must be nursing some deep inner sadness, I believe not so much. I have met children who have no ostensible reason to be the way they are, but are wired to derive enjoyment from causing fear and distress. That is what makes them happy. Tangentially, I work with adult offenders and while there are those who have backstories that would make anyone feel there must be a link, there are many who do not.

Nowadays many kids do not fear the police, and are well able to play the school system. Arguably, they might well think twice after getting jumped one dark night, but not everyone has a handy local vigilante to re-assert dominance. And it doesn’t take a genius to figure out how that tactic could backfire, either.

You had the capacity to cause harm, as every human being does. You were capable of experiencing empathy, metacognition, and were (eventually) able to exercise self-control. Not everyone does, can, or will. So, what do you reckon we do about these people? How will you prevent your child from being bullied?

you weren’t really his friend were you.

I never bullied, but I was bullied. By girls in primary and boys in secondary.

Not sure I agree. I think behaviours like bullying tends to repeat itself. These things aren’t left at the school gate.

Anyone weak enough to have bullied is likely to feel weak again and resort to the same tactics again in later life, especially in the workplace and social groups.

So yes, some people can and should be defined by their bullying.

Yes, its certainly true that some people react very differently to sadness or difficulties in their own life; it makes them more empathetic.

You should feel proud that you fall on this side of the equation. I think its the genuinely stronger people who do - even though superficially they might appear less "fiesty."

I think, though, some people are viewing the idea that something unfortunate is causing the bully to behave in a certain way as an "excuse", when it absolutely isn't. It's a reason they need to look more carefully at why they are the way they are.

Saying some people are "just nasty" is far more of an exoneration. If they really are "just like that", I guess what can they do? But usually they aren't. Usually it is a misdirected attempt to make themselves feel better by making someone else's life worse. Or an attempt to scare people into leaving them alone by covering up the bete noir in their own life.

You see this with mums in nursery or early year's school groups. More often than not there is a subtle push at the outset- usually within days - to identify "the problem kid." This looks like a form of policing "kindness", but in fact it's just more bullying, again born from vulnerability. After years at the school gates, you start to realise the problem kid one year would have been nowhere near being problem kid in another class, but its somehow important to the parents to find one because if one isn't established there is a risk their own dc gets given that role. We are never more vulnerable than when our dc are vulnerable.

People are nasty because they have chosen an inappropriate outlet for what is really bothering them underneath. If people are encouraged to ask themselves what it is in their life that makes them feel the need to hurt others, it's a step on the right path to understanding that the bullying isn't the salve for that hurt. In fact, mostly it makes it worse, as bullying is very often a playing-out of self-loathing, or at the very least of buried insecurity.

Does that absolve the bully from responsibility? No, of course not, It points to the fact they need to work on themselves rather than hitting out. It pins the issue squarely as a "them" problem.

It still breaks my heart now, and I know it still bothers her.
The school were brilliant and dealt with it as soon as I spoke to them. They went to each girls lesson and pulled them out there and then. The bullying stopped immediately but they never really got any punishment for it and the damage was already done.
I just wanted to go to the school and slap them all!

I was hauled in to the headteachers office for bullying once, in primary school. I was outraged at the injustice of it, as I genuinely didn’t, and don’t, believe it had been bullying but on reflection, I could see why the other girls mum had been upset enough by her version of events so as to complain to the school. I had been horrible to this girl often, but it was very much a two way street, started by her. I just hadn’t complained.
With that being said, it made me reflect on bullying and what side of that coin I really wanted to be on, and I made it my mission throughout secondary school, and beyond actually, to step in where I could and where necessary, and to include those who were being excluded or felt on the outs. I could still be a sharp tongued, sarcastic little cunt, but I like to think I helped one or two people along the way. I certainly don’t think I added to anyone’s misery anyway.

One of my bullies had a shit home life

Her and her brother came from a broken home and both parents had a string of new step mothers/fathers and the kids where an afterthought

My parents are married,had money,took us on holiday every year,own their home,my father had a new motorbike every 3 years,I had horse riding lessons and my parents didn't spend every night in the pub like hers did

She was jealous of my 'happy' home life-this is a girl who used to shit in adults shoes,lies spilled out of her mouth and she'd steal all the time from them

What she didn't know was it was all smoke and mirrors

My mother is a narcissist,my father enabled her in what torture she felt like inflicting at any one moment and she made me the scapegoat

They made me be a carer from a young age to my darling grandad (I lived with him from a young age) and that made me a target ('ewww,you wipe and old man's arse!')

They had money because they didn't spend it on us and if it hadn't have been for my grandad,I would have been even more neglected

He paid for my horse riding lessons and other essentials for me (it stopped when he died and i had to find money for food,san pro and school uniform/books)

We grew up and left school,both falling pregnant with our dds within months of each other-the father is her school boyfriend who would shove his hand between my legs and smirk and if he got a chance,he'd go for a nipple and squeeze (hes her perfect match)

They brought up their dd to be exactly the same as themselves,the dd bullied my dd just because she was my dd

At one point her dd grabbed my dd and pulled her shorts and pants down in front of the whole school,school suspended her and i was walking home with a shaken dd and heard the other mother telling her dd that she'd done a 'good job' and did she want a treat on the way home?

They are adults now and her dd is still the same and is dragging up her dc to be exactly the same as her parents

The mother is a mental health nurse now-but it's still there,bubbling away under the surface,I know she's bullied more than one person out of their jobs

So yes they may be unhappy and maybe neglected,but so was i and I've never bullied anyone in my life

Some people are a mix of sadness and pure evil

Not been a bully, but I was bullied quite badly for most of y4. My teacher ended up getting the sack and the school apologising to my parents. Looking back now, still genuinely have no idea why they did it. It was a group of girls, who were popular and basically the whole class shunned me. We had been friends in y3 and were again in 5/6 but y4 was horrific. I think they got caught up in the group mentality and enjoyed the power they weilded over the rest of the class. There was a ringleader who the others were definitely scared of. In later years one of them told me she was scared she'd be next if she stood up for me/said something. I reckon a few of them felt like that.

The ringleader had a perfectly nice life, but was quite spoilt which didnt help her general outlook.

I agree with this. A lot of bullies are just vile narcissists and never change. Like the bully in the other thread, they’re not sorry for the harm they caused but they do just want to have a chapter closed for them so they don’t have to feel guilty any more.

But I honestly think a lot of people join in with bullying because they’re weak and want an easy life, and want to fit in with a crowd and not be bullied themselves. And they’re able to temporarily push any empathy for their victim out of their minds when they’re joining in the bullying, only for it to resurface later. All bullies are cowards.

People can do disgusting things and feel genuine regret and shame later on. Lots of people do evil things as kids and still deserve redemption if they genuinely recognise the horror of their actions in a way that is not self serving - if they want to lead harmless and decent lives from now on. There are never excuses for bullying and they’re not entitled to their victims’ forgiveness. But I think you can behave in a horrible way as a kid and grow up enough to be a ‘nice’ person later.

I detest bullies and I detest bystanders. I detest them even more when they work in the NHS. I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with them, or why they behave like it or why they get away with it but they do. There’s certainly two different sides to them. The face and behaviour they show to the public and the face and behaviour they don’t show to the public. Nasty, vindictive people protected by those at the top. Some victims of bullying die by suicide but the bullies don’t care. Bullies only care about making others feel small and having a laugh at their expense. When one victim goes, they find another.

Nursing is supposed to be a caring profession but there is a culture of bullying. It starts from the top and filters down to the bottom.

“An independent culture review commissioned by the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) (NMC) in July 2024 found the organization had a toxic culture marked by racism, discrimination, and bullying, leading to safeguarding concerns and the deaths of six people who had been under or recently concluded fitness to practise (FtP) investigations. The NMC's review, conducted by Nazir Afzal OBE and Rise Associates, accepted the report's recommendations for change, and the NMC has since published a comprehensive three-year culture transformation program to address these issues and establish a more positive and inclusive environment.”

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/top-nurse-leaves-job-after-31285526

I really hope the children of bullies are bullied so the parents can see exactly how they've treated people and their long lasting effects.

I still live in my home town and I see some of them in town. I can't bear it and have had to leave shops when I've seen them. You can't help but look at their social media and they're all engaged/married and got kids. And then there's me, stuck in life knowing that I'll never have that.

I would love it if my high school bullies apologised to me because it means they've acknowledged it. I was never physically bullied but a group of mean girls in my form made everyone's life hell. They would constantly make fun of me but not exactly to my face. They'd be sitting at the table next to my table speaking so loudly and just being awful humans.

you'll always get bullies on these friends making excuses for their behaviour. They never take accountability and never acknowledge how messes up someone can be decades later. There is no excuse for bullying. It's usually the ones with a bad home life getting bullied than the one actually doing the bullying.

Yes that was pretty much my experience too. Maybe it depends on what school you go to but there are (or were in my day) many places with a strong culture of bullying. It was normalised. Nobody got expelled for it or even told off but it was there every day.

But who do you classify as bullies though? Would you class someone laughing at what the bully says and offering support/encouragement as a bully? Or is it just the ringleader? Because in my experience it was the supporters that hurt me a lot more than the instigator. I felt betrayed because these people had been nice to me in other contexts yet now they were laughing at me. Whereas I knew the ringleader was just a loose canon with her own issues. And I know I also supported bullies because I didn’t want to be the target and it seemed like being mean to people was the way to earn respect at my school (though very short-lived respect).