to expect mil to help out sometimes with the kids??

I can't say looking aftrer 5 boys with one screaming, one having a meltdownn, and one shouting would be my ideal thing to do either. You can't really force that on someone must because you've chosen it for your self. Maybe your MIL would be more amenable in spending time with one or two of your boys at a time?

And, just to say, the word "expect" in this title really fucking grinds my gears.

Your mil should be able to "expect" you not to believe you're entitled to her free labour and should be able to "expect" you to just get on with raising all the kids you chose to have and not blame her for the failings of your parenting and your husband - but apparently that's a bridge too far.

This is why I love MN, women supporting women. No really, you’re all being so supportive of the OP. Dragging her for having 5 kids, running out of nappies, etc etc.

Where the fuck is the kicking for her H who is “tired from his long hours” ?

OK MIL doesn’t have to help, but blatant favouritism between grandkids will bite her on the arse at some point.

And as for the comment of OP being some random woman her son married: WOW!

OP, I hope you bought yourself something nice to have once the kids have buggered off to bed.

Most people aren't "shaming her for the number of kids {she} has" they are pointing out that she shouldn't be trying to shame her MiL for not wanting to go out in the rain this evening to pick up nappies, which there is no reason to have run out of, but, if she has, there are all the options people have suggested ahead of thinking "I'll ask MiL"

OP chose to have 5 dc, (or, from later post chose to have 4, and didn't insist on anything permanent like a vasectomy) when presumably her DP would have already been showing his true colours after the first two, if not the first one. So, it would seem an odd choice to make, knowing she will be doing all the parenting herself, and knowing she struggles with the organisation of it.

Exactly, and to add her 16 year old vaping at home and the 14 year old spends his time playing Xbox says a lot about the chaos in the house.

She chose to have 2, bit you want her to help with your choice to have 5? Seriously?

It’s fine to have many kids if you have the plan and ability to raise them properly. The fact her 16 spends his days vaping and the 14 year old spends his time playing Xbox and cannot carry out a single tasks such as go buy some nappies says a lot about their parenting and her DH conveniently works late everyday to gets way from the craziness. He conveniently never picks up his phone when he is “working late” so why would MIL get herself involved when even their father stays away?

I can see MIL not wanting to be involved in the chaos or disapproving of their parenting approach, I wouldn’t be comfortable watching my 16 year old grandson vaping all day in the house without being able to say something.

My experience is that the more children you have the less willing people are to help/get involved. I’d be daunted by the prospect of looking after 5 kids on my own and I’m only 40! I suppose your mil just feels it’s too much for her.

I think yabu to direct all your anger at your MiL.

Your oldest DS could have minded the other kids while you nipped out, or he could have nipped out to pick up the nappies. And your DH works long hours while ignoring you. Could you have messaged him and asked him to pick them up on the way home? Your DH has to step up. He has five kids so ignorance is not an option. And stop letting your older boys walk all over you and check out of family life. This is how boys grow up to be men who think housework and child rearing is beneath them. You're literally choosing to blame a woman over the males in your home who could have resolved the issue. Stop asking and start demanding.

Dying in a ditch sounds preferable tbh

Where was your DH in all this? If he wasn’t yet home, couldn’t he have picked up nappies? If he was home, why couldn’t he have gone out? Why couldn’t DS (16) have gone to the shops for you? If you were literally down to your last nappy, why didn’t you ask MIL to pick up some nappies rather than come round and mind five unruly and fractious boys? Your MIL is not some sort of unpaid baby minder, and if your DSil is a SAHM, then MIL probably enjoys going round there and having the company - there will be two of them looking after two children, which is very different from MIL on her own looking after your five, who sadly don’t sound particularly open to reason. If you allow a 15 month old to “refuse” to get into his buggy, what hope for when he’s older?

It does sound like a really manic and miserable environment

OP, sorry to read it feels like you're drowning and for the Mumsnet pile on. We don't have family support (all internationally) so organisation is key for us. You need to get yourself into a situation where running out of nappy type scenarios don't happen and if they do one of your teens can help with that. When your DH is back give him the kids, have a bit of you time then plot and plan how you can be more organised and forgot mil.

Ask your FIL @OneGreatSheep . Your husband needs to step up doesn’t he? You know this but instead of holding your hubby accountable you attribute responsibility on your MIL

I would take away and destroy the vape.
I would turn off the Xbox.
No one would be on TikTok until their homework was done.

i can understand why your mil is saying Thanks but no thanks.

@OneGreatSheep could you not get them delivered via deliveroo or amazon - you can get them in the hour?

Could, should, are what’s ’fair’ are all irrelevant.

She’s made it clear that she doesn’t want to, doesn’t have to, and isn’t going to. That’s it. You can continue to expect differently if you like, but all that will result in is your own disappointment.

I am pregnant with baby no 5 , none of mine vape, or "scream at the xbox" & that's probably why I don't have issues getting childcare from family .. if you run out of nappies you can deliveroo/ uber them but your 16 year old is old enough to babysit & that's part of your issue, your boys are clearly unruly & don't do as they're told so obviously will be too much hard work .

@bumbaloo

its MIL choice like its OPs choice to push out 5 with a partner who isnt pulling their weight

Clearly, it makes perfect sense to the mil to say No and do what she wants with her own time.

Insert standard response - "But she will die in a ditch all alone and it will be her own fault"

I would have fetched the nappies for you, but frankly, you haven’t made your household sound like a pleasant place to visit.

The list of children crying, screaming, shouting, sounds awful.
The oldest should be able to pop out to the shops for you, not be adding to the noise.

Because when you're talking about spending time in someone's home and with their children your relationship with their primary caregiver does usually make a difference in the experience.

OP's husband (the MIL's son) sounds utterly uninvolved, so the MIL will be coordinating everything with OP. OP doesn't sound like she particularly likes her MIL, and she's very likely just not as close to the MIL as the MIL's own daughter.

The MIL and her daughter may be close friends at this age, MIL may really enjoy going to her daughter's house to iron and chat and have tea, and may find it extremely low-stress to coordinate tasks with her daughter. Her daughter may have a better understanding of her own mother's preferences/schedule and what sorts of asks when are going to be well received, and may be an important source of support in her mother's life. The two may agree more on childcare/parenting approaches and be able to resolve conflict with less stress.

It's not reasonable to ignore the different relationship with the parents, especially the primary caregiver, when talking about this sort of hands-on help.

Or, older women get to do whatever they want with their own precious, totally irreplacable and limited time and resources.

We are entitled to the free labour of women, didn't you know that? Older women are NOT entitled to simply say "No" although no is a full sentence in every other part of life.

Older women are to be nannies, caregivers and support for anyone who asks them, till they finally drop dead of exhaustion.

Any older woman who says no to babysitting is to be reviled, shamed and picked apart. She will die alone in a ditch and it will be her own fault.

Husbands and fathers in law, boys and men of all ages are exempt.

I mean, obviously that's all total bullshit, but it's what these endless hectoring threads intend to reinforce.

No offence but fuck looking after 5 boisterous boys

and im 31 and a single parent to one! They're your kids, not hers. I'd pick watching two over 5 any day.