to expect mil to help out sometimes with the kids??

I can see how frustrating it is but I would suggest it may actually be the 13 & 16yo she finds difficult.

A 16yo who sits in his room vaping then goes out without asking on a school night ? That wouldn't apeal to me, neither would a 13yo stuck on his Xbox. Parenting teens is relentless and can be a thankless task maybe that is what she doesn't fancy.

It wouldn't hurt her to go get the nappies for you.
I don't really get on with my DIL, nothing has happened we just don't fancy each other but I would absolutely help if she asked me.
No way would I turn her away and I am sure she would do the same for me.

I can see why you’re frustrated, my children were the first Grandchildren and MIL used to visit all the time when the eldest ones were little, when her own daughter, my SIL had children ours were dropped like a hot potato and we probably only see her twice a year now despite being local because I simply gave up trying.
Its your husband that needs to step up, he has helped make 5 babies and working long hours doesn’t mean he can’t help at all and not answering his phone or picking up messages is awful, what if there was an emergency.
Where is your family? You need to figure out who ‘your village’ are, I would have babysat a friend’s kids if she needed to pop to the shops etc
If your eldest is just sat there vaping in his room I would have asked him to go if the shops were in walking distance.

Do you know something this thread is so indicative of the new mn because people are so angry, and so enjoying their digs, twisting the knife etc. There's so much glee, smugness and bitterness on. Strip out what it’s about and look at the phrasing and tone of so many comments.

This old chestnut. I doubt mil is going to be leaning on her when she’s so disorganised and they don’t seem close. Not every older person needs help/care either!

Yes each and every bit of this

She isn't favouring one set of grandchildren over the other. The grandchildren aren't the ones wanting help.

She's favouring spending time with her daughter over dropping everything at the last second to bail out her daughter in law who's run out of nappies "again".

While her son opts out of parenting and her teenage grandsons are too lazy, entitled or badly brought up to look after their younger two siblings for the supposed 10 minutes it takes for their mother to pop to the shops for nappies.

This isn't about favouring grandchildren. This is about not wanting to go out in the rain to bail out her disorganised DIL by spending time in a house with shouting teens, stripping small children and a screaming baby. When their own father, her adult son, can't even be arsed.

Why can't your family help out.

I dont understand why she'd favour one set of grandkids over the other. I think that's mean. However, why couldn't your 16 year look after the younger 2 while you popped out. Sounds like your husband also need to step up.

My DM is the opposite. She has always done far more for my DB and SIL. They had kids first (by a few months), they live 2 miles closer.... I agree with others that it's probably the sheer numbers of DC, and the behaviour described doesn't sound too enticing.

As if it’s inevitable that she’ll expect or want OP to provide either.

I'm sorry but your shouldn't have that many if you can't figure out how to sort it yourself. Out youngest 4 are between 1 and 3 then got olders and nd I would never have thought why is my mum or mil not helping me out more. My responsibility. Also with a big family best to keep on top of things like nappies so you don't have to pop out like that

YANBU, OP. Remember this when MIL is older and needs care. Tell her to ask her children.

And I wouldn’t host her for Christmas either.

You and your DH chose to have 5 DC. YABU to be so angry with your MiL. Your choices are not her problem.

I sympathise - having 5 would be exhausting. But why is all the expectation put on another woman who isn't even part of the household? The dad could clearly be pulling his weight more. The two teenage sons are old enough to help with child minding or popping to the shops. Yet somehow all the expectation lands straight on MILs lap? Sexist and unfair. My children are young and I appreciate help from family, but it's not their job just because I chose to have kids. Really the dad needs to step up, he might be exhausted but so is the mum.

Here's what I'm wondering: How much of a relationship do you have with her otherwise?
I know you're going to tell me that you're swamped with taking care of your sons, but still...
Do you ever call her up just to chat? Do you ever propose meeting for lunch? Do you ever bring her a little gift and say, "This made me think of you"?
Or do you just only contact her when you're asking her to do something for you?

Nonsense. In addition, nobody is being judgmental about her having 5 they are being judgmental about her having 5 and expecting an older woman to provide free labour instead of parenting them effectively or insisting that her husband parents them and is contactable for such issues.

Everyone judges, all the time, you just judged people for judging OPs expectations.

If Ops children have a pretty bleak future that's on her and their father, nothing to do with the mil who has a perfect right to say "No" which is apparently a full sentence on mumsnet, unless you are an older woman being expected to give free labour.

Of course it's a shame she didn't help you but just plan for life without her help and things will be easier for you. Would your FIL help out?

Maybe your older boys are an age where they can step up now. And your husband needs to encourage that.

I have four, so I can hardly be judgemental about a big family, but I do think the MIL is being unreasonable not to provide some support for the benefit of the children. It’s pretty clear the OP and her husband are well over their heads with 5, and the older boys certainly aren’t on a great path. Yes, I wouldn’t be thrilled as a MIL about the choices my son and DIL were making, but there are still 5 boys who probably could have (and the younger ones still would) benefit from a village and some protective factors in their lives. For that reason alone I would have stepped in to help through their lives. It wouldn’t bring me joy to know my grandsons were possibly going to have a pretty bleak future.

I have so many questions. Why did the oldest two have to come? Does 16 year old have additional needs because I don’t understand why he can’t be left alone? In your shoes I would leave the oldest 3 and take the baby and 4 year old with you. If 16 year old can’t be trusted to supervise the 8 year old then take him too. But 16 and 13 can be left surely?

@OneGreatSheep
Do you want to talk a bit more about your marriage?

You roll your eyes at "working long hours" and then imply that he isnt in fact "working late".

What is the real issue here, because it isnt your MIL is it?

Is this a pretend post?
Sad that MIL can't help but she IS over whelmed.

Op, start by helping yourself and reducing the chaos and unexpected emergencies.
No to vaping, get DS1 help to stop, also mandate communication about going out.
No to more than half an hour of XBox per day for DS2 and immediate loss for two days if son won't help out reasonably sometimes.
Routines for all sons helping in the household.

Mandate that DH HAS to be contactable at ALL times.
He could easily have purchased nappies on way home or, even better, he could have picked up your whole weekly shopping order waiting for collection.

Stash five nappies in a hiding place. Only use maximum of two from that place before buying more nappies.

I would have chosen to leave the kids home:
16 year old oversees for ten minutes, he is in charge of the four year old.
Hand the baby to the fifteen year old.
Ask the eight year old to either read quietly in his room or come with you.

You could also try asking MIL for help not involving child care. For example - ask MIL to buy the nappies and drop them to you. Asking MIL to come and share pikelets in the local park for a picnic so to be adult company for you.

Guests will never like to visit a vape house, MIL included.
Family will not like screaming and an overpowering XBox.
Your home is not calm nor welcoming for MIL.
Try to change for benefit of your sons.

How old is she?

To be honest it sounds exhausting - a kid at every single stage of child development in one go.

Plus I can't imagine what it would be like to be 'expected' to help you deal with your choices.

I wonder if there's a difference in the way you and her daughter speak to her, your respective language and expectations?

She might just feel more comfortable and respected over there.

Your lazy lump of a husband needs to step up and parent. Long hours and the poor little mite is too knackered to parent his children? Women don’t get that option. It’s not mil’s fault although it’s easy to blame her as she’s female. What about fil, could he have gone to get the nappies for you?

@butterfly1234 MIL already does that -she takes one of the younger boys to football sometimes. But if the older two are only interested in xbox and vaping and don't respond well to being asked to do anything and the baby is allowed to refuse to get in a pushchair, even one at a time child minding sounds hard work.