Could have versus could of

@PendantScorner

you haven't explained what you meant by 'superior spelling and grammar'.

This thread is a great example. People who write well and have a good understanding of grammar making mildly pejorative remarks about those who don't, with plentiful examples of breaches of grammar rules.

@CoffeeCantata

Speaking for myself, I’m not criticising ‘ordinary’ people who, for a variety of reasons, have poor Standard English. That’s probably always been the case - many people will not achieve a high level of skill in literacy.
What I think is alarming is the increasing tendency for elite or professional writers to make basic errors - and the BBC are among the guilty ones.

I agree that there's no excuse for it from an outlet such as the BBC (or in any official communication).

But I think you have to remember that the majority of people "ordinary people" as you put it, don't really care all that much about the purity of language. It's a way to get from A to B.

While I don't identify with that, I can see why if you're not interested in something, fairly arcane rules about its usage seem petty trivial.

@EmeraldShamrock000 , the 'don't exaggerate' was regarding the 'millions'. You are making excuses. The use of of as a verb is not limited to people from dysfunctional backgrounds.

@Onthebusses , I think you're saying people speak without thinking about the consequences?
I'm not. Someone hears someone say 'Could of' and they think that's OK.

I mean how do you write 'would of' and what do you think it means as you write it? Why do you then write 'I have' and not 'I of'?
They don't care.

They can't think 'of' means anything other than... well, of. So, what do they think 'would of' means when they write it? They think 'would of ' is OK.

@Thepeopleversuswork , you haven't explained what you meant by 'superior spelling and grammar'.

On the other hand if someone corrects them on an anonymous forum it could actually help them. It isn't about feeling smug.

I differentiate between spoken English and written English. I often get sent book manuscripts to read over and damn right I would correct it if someone had written 'I was sat' or even worse 'I was laid on the bed' (unless, of course, someone had physically seated or laid them there). But if someone says it, I just shrug, I know what they mean.

If it's spoken, it's out and nobody is going to stop and say 'oops, sorry, I mean I was sitting' or 'I actually meant to say I was lying...' But if it's written, you get to go back and think 'that doesn't look quite right, better check.'

I don’t think they think about it at all.

I love language. I studied it at university and I taught English for several years. I find it hard to grasp that other people don’t care, though! My very well-educated friends don’t - language is just a basic tool to them and they have no interest or pleasure in it. I’m in choirs and I’ll sometimes remark on how brilliant or how awful the lyrics we’re singing are and get blank looks back. They’ll often look baffled and say they hadn’t even thought about the words!

It’s hard for me to understand this attitude, but it is what it is….🫩

I think you're saying people speak without thinking about the consequences?

I mean how do you write 'would of' and what do you think it means as you write it? Why do you then write 'I have' and not 'I of'?

They can't think 'of' means anything other than... well, of. So, what do they think 'would of' means when they write it?

Speaking for myself, I’m not criticising ‘ordinary’ people who, for a variety of reasons, have poor Standard English. That’s probably always been the case - many people will not achieve a high level of skill in literacy.

What I think is alarming is the increasing tendency for elite or professional writers to make basic errors - and the BBC are among the guilty ones.

My daughter’s teacher (who was Literacy Coordinator at the time) wrote a list of words on the board to help the children in their project on books and publishing: auther and copywrite were among them. This teacher was notoriously prickly and unapproachable so I’m afraid I took the coward’s way out and just told my daughter the correct spellings. It wasn’t a good look though.

I'm not.
@PendantScorner don't be so narrow minded. There's many reasons why people don't have good grammar.
DC may get 13 Years of education, not every child has the same opportunities.
Most learn how to speak before starting school, using their surroundings, if the parents have poor grammar, it's embedded, the children with poor attendance, cold homes, parents with addiction or learning disorders, young siblings to take care of, they're not focused on the have/of etc.
I attended an inner city school where addiction and teenage pregnancy was rife.

Some don't know what a verb is then you have another set of problems...

I'm aware of the spellings and the grammatical rules.. if I was writing it I would spell correctly but that still doesn't stop me pronouncing as "could of" 50% of the time due to local accent much to my mother's annoyance! "You sound very Kidderminster dear"

"Could of" - and its cousins 'would of', 'should of' and 'might of' - fills me with irrational anger. To the point that I'll stop reading as soon as I see it.

Maybe. Some people clearly don't learn it, for a variety of reasons. Some people don't get along with the education system, some people's parents don't care enough to instill it. Many don't read, some have neurodiversities and other challenges. Some just can't be bothered.

Look I hate it as much as the rest of you. I just think there's something quite smug and politely unkind about these SPAG threads. They have no real objective other than to create a little bit of microaggression towards those with substandard linguistic skills. And no-one who mistakes "could have" for "could of" would read them anyway so most of you are shouting into the void.

@EmeraldShamrock000 , don't exaggerate.

@Thepeopleversuswork , what exactly is "superior spelling and grammar"? Most of us will have has at least 10 years of learning English at school. Given that to have is probably the most used verb in English, it will have been taught at some point.

@JaneEyre40 @PendantScorner

It's not exactly clever to have correct grammar....low bar.

Of course it's not clever. But that's the point, surely?

Well educated people who get a little kick out of using superior spelling and grammar to put down others whose isn't up to scratch.

I know it irritates people; it irritates me. I just don't see what you're trying to achieve by pointing this out on a thread.

By definition, the people who don't understand this won't understand long screeds of explanations of the underpinning grammar. Many people don't care and others will just be belittled by it. No one is going to have a light-bulb moment around the correct use of "could of" versus "could have" because of a Mumsnet thread.

It's an exercise in getting a micro-buzz of superiority at the expense of people who haven't had the benefit of your education.

Thank you. Teacher.
I'm sure most pp's are aware, as this is one of a million threads on the subject.

@Onthebusses , people do speak without knowing what they are saying.
That's why we get the howlers on here. Look at the viscous threads in Pedants' corner if you want examples.

@Thepeopleversuswork Anyone writing "could of" has had a substandard education or has a neurodiversity or learning difficulty such as dyslexia.
is not true.
Children today get 13 yrs of education but still many will still wrote could of. People who are not dyslexic or uneducated say and write 'could of'.

The verb 'to have' is one of the most important verbs in the English language.

It's not exactly clever to have correct grammar....low bar.

That's just what I call auto-correct, because I call it a cunt at least daily.

Shorter way to remember: of isn't a verb.

I am genuinely curious what they think it means. If you know what 'of' means then how does 'could of' mean anything?

I know people are going to say they just don't think about it, but how do you speak without knowing what you're saying? How do words enter a page from your hand if you don't know what they mean? I really seriously do not understand. Maybe I'm the dumb one!

If I wrote 'I of a pen to write with'..... sorry I'm baffled

OMG - auto-cunt 😂

Classic - please know I’m laughing at the autocorrect and not at you @TheOtherAgentJohnson and really needed a little LOL today!

Many teachers and TAs don't speak or write correctly.

It's depressing when it's a teacher. Glad your DS knows, did you teach him 😊