To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

Yes I’ve never experienced any negative attitudes about it, just both sexes enjoying themselves.

Making decisions and discovering we regret them later on is how we learn what we do and don't like

Yes. Sometimes people consent to sex that they regret. And... honestly, so what? We all regret things all the time. People make mistakes and are annoyed with themselves afterwards and, hopefully, try not to make that same mistake again. People often regret their marriages, for example, but I don't see the people who rail against casual sex on here railing equally about the institution of marriage and calling it fundamentally harmful just because some people make a mistake in marrying the wrong person. I've regretted changing jobs before, which frankly had a lot more impact on my life than an ill-advised shag. That doesn't mean that it was anyone else's fault or society pressured me into it.

I really don't know why having sex and later thinking 'You know, that really didn't make me happy, and I wish I hadn't done it' is somehow worse than any other regret someone might have, and why we'd blame society for that rather than just making a choice that didn't work out for us.

Sex is one of the most natural things in the world...

Consent isn't a violation

Regretting something doesn't make it grim

Bring in the Inquisition(!)

Yes, in theory if everyone subscribed to one (Catholic, in this case) ideology and happily acted totally in accordance with it then life would be wonderful. Ironically, what shreds this theory when it comes to putting it into practice is actual human nature.

The freedom to make your own choices does not mean you’re guaranteed to be happy with the outcome of those choices, or not regret them. There is no ideology practiced on earth that is free from human collateral and suffering. There is always a price to pay, and I would always choose to pay the price for freedom than I would choose to pay that of the alternative (incidentally, my family lived under Communism, so my ‘choice environment’ is most definitely one that values the rights of the individual to make choices for themselves).

Also, even if the majority of women don't enjoy casual sex, that still wouldn't mean that casual sex is problematic. The women (and men) who don't enjoy casual sex are, by and large, not engaging in it. Nobody is forcing women into seeking out Tinder hookups or having one-night stands with men they meet in bars. The ones who don't want to do that aren't doing it. If they having difficulty finding men who meet their requirements for sexual behaviour, and/or are being rejected by men who have a more relaxed attitude to sex, then... that's not anyone's fault. Women aren't automatically owed boyfriends, any more than men are automatically owed girlfriends. Men and women are entitled to reject one another for any reason they choose, including sexual behaviour and attitudes.

I think men that lie to get women into bed should be shamed for being liars and manipulative and careless with other people’s feelings. Not shamed for their sexual behaviour.

I have no problem at all using the word slutty and will always continue to use it if I feel the urge. It's perfect for a certain type of person. Wouldn't say it to someone's face unless they tried calling me vanilla, prudish etc - all the ways slutty people try to shame normal people

There is nothing about being 'slutty' - as you put it - that isn't 'normal'. There is nothing abnormal about enjoying sex with people you're attracted to, just like there is nothing abnormal about sleeping with only one person in your entire life.

If you don't want relationships with people who have had sex with a lot of other people, or who have certain sexual interests that you're not into, that's absolutely fine. That's your preference and there's nothing wrong with it. But being derogatory and hateful towards people for enjoying something that you don't personally enjoy - whether that's sex or anything else - says an awful lot about you, and none of it is good.

Here's the thing: nobody 'slutty' cares how many people you do or don't sleep with. Nobody will 'shame' you for your attitude to sex unless you try to tell them that your attitude is right and normal while theirs is disgusting and abnormal. That's when they'll retaliate. They don't care how many people you've slept with or what you do in bed. They do care that you're openly judging and criticising them for enjoying something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you and is harming you in no way whatsoever, and attributing their enjoyment of sex to a fundamental character flaw.

Nobody would be trying to shame you if you weren't being utterly hateful towards them for having different sexual interests to your own.

Ah, statistics. Garnered by asking people questions. Who is to say they're telling the truth? Or when and where the data was collected? The statistics would be vastly different if you collected data in say, Bible belt America as opposed to London or Manchester, or when the data was collected. Certainly back in the 1960s/70s, in my peer group, everyone was shagging like rabbits at every opportunity with almost anyone, but had a researcher asked them, not sure how many would actually have admitted it straight out.

🙄👏👏👏👏👏🙄

How many sexual partners does someone need to have had for you to refer to them as slutty as opposed to what you class as normal?

I don't think anyone should be shamed ..what an odd thing to suggest
If both people are consenting adults and having safe sex ,I don't see any problem with numbers ,as long as both parties are happy .
Any women in today's world
Unless living under a bush
Knows the chance of the man being a player is high ,and knows he may well be after sex and then dump.
That's a risk you take having sex early in a relationship, especially before you get to know the man properly
But leaving it till later runs the risk of wasted time on someone where sex is crap.
It's swings and roundabouts,and we all make the choices right for each of us .
But shaming people,has absolutely no place in relationships at all

Oh it absolutely is abuse. It totally destroys trust, ruins lives, it's gross behaviour.

Chump Lady nails it on her site, love her reality based articles.

Isn’t adultery emotional abuse?

I've always found slutty men gross and completely unattractive, but I don't much care what they do, as they don't directly impacted me. I avoided dating any of them, so was not an issue. I once was chatting to a guy on a dating site and he revealed his body count and I told him I was no longer interested, politely. He insisted on me telling him why and then he was so pissed off 😆

I think most women find slutty men gross and unattractive actually, the whole greasy haired lothario trope being sexy to women seems to come from other men, I've never spoken to a woman who thinks a higher chance of STDs and treating women's bodies like impersonal holes for fluids is a good thing.

Also, slutty men are far more likely to screw around once they are in a relationship than normal men.

I have no problem at all using the word slutty and will always continue to use it if I feel the urge. It's perfect for a certain type of person. Wouldn't say it to someone's face unless they tried calling me vanilla, prudish etc - all the ways slutty people try to shame normal people 😅

I love how mumsnetters try all the time to police words that people simply do use in normal conversations. Won't work on me, I'm afraid.

Some people seem to be able to treat bodies as a set of orifices for fluids, but we ARE our bodies, and I have no interest at all in someone who can lose count of the number of partners they have had and personally have the opinion that if you're a shagger you have a lot less personal respect for yourself than those who care about who they are sticking their bits into.

And finally, slutty men are at a higher risk of being deadbeat dads or at the very least having extra kids strewn around in their wake.

So there's just no reason women (as a group) would have evolved to find slutty men attractive - higher risk of diseases, higher risk of cheating, higher risk of having to share limited resources and extra kids turning up.

So yeah, I don't think women are the ones pushing the trope.

Can't post links but you can look for
"The State of Affairs" (IFS, 2019): 20% of men with 10+ partners cheat vs. 10% with fewer.
"Personality, Marital Satisfaction, and Probability of Marital Infidelity" (Hughes & Gallup, 2003): Promiscuity correlates with cheating (r=0.80).
Sexual Behavior and STD Prevalence" (CDC, 2015): Men with 5+ female partners yearly have 15% chlamydia prevalence vs. 3% for monogamous men.
"High-Risk Sexual Behavior in Men" (Journal of Sexual Research, 2017): 25% of promiscuous heterosexual men had STDs (e.g., gonorrhea, syphilis).
"STI Trends in Heterosexual Men" (PubMed, 2020): Multiple partners increase syphilis risk (7.5/100 person-years).

It's not about blame. It's about the collateral and human suffering that's a side effect of others more privileged and powerful having the 'right' to violate natural law. It's grim, and a grim attitude. But when people hold these attitudes I often suspect it might be saying something about their own 'choice environment'.

If people like having sex that's up to them. How does it affect you?

I really couldn't give a toss what people do in bed.

And even if someone is adulterous, there are worse things like being financially abusive or violent.

Far more important things to get het up about.

If you know something will make you unhappy and you still consent to it... that's entirely on you.

You consented. You gave permission

You can't blame society

Yes exactly. People make bad choices because of their "choice environment". This can be consenting to sex that they know will likely make them unhappy and they will not enjoy - but they see some other gain. That's still consent. And that's exactly the point I'm making about consent being a pathetically low bar, and much sex that is being consented to, is still morally not great.

🙋🏻‍♀️ 16 years of very happy marriage so far. And we had sex on the first ‘date’.

Body count is not a new phenomenon

I remember discussing this with my male friends 40+ years ago

Apparantly, males are seen as more manly, the more people that they have had sex with

I do not think that it will ever change

However, it was not the same for females

I’ve asked this but I don’t think @TheJoyOfWriting has answered.

where does FLR end and femdom begin? Which, if either, is acceptable? And if neither, what does “taking control” in the bedroom look like? And what’s the difference between that and a kink?

OK, so where are you drawing your line? What’s ’taking control’ and what’s ‘domination’ in the bedroom? What difference does it make if both parties are consenting and enjoying it? If being handcuffed, gagged and spanked with a paddle is much more enjoyable and fulfilling for someone than being swept off her feet and ‘made love to’ on a bed scattered with rose petals, what do you suggest she does?

Is it better for her to keep quiet about her masochistic desires and have a sex life she doesn’t really enjoy very much, instead of exploring what she likes and having an incredible time doing it? Because society has decided it’s unsafe and immoral and that women can’t possibly really enjoy that kind of thing?

That doesn’t sound like feminism or ‘women taking control’ to me. It sounds like repressive, misogynist slut-shaming.

It sounds very much to me as if the difference for you is simply that you find one palatable and not the other.

Same applies the other way around. If a couple have a much better time in the bedroom when the man gets blindfolded, pegged, slapped and called a worthless little fuck-toy by the woman, why is better for either men or women to repress that mutual desire because people who happen not to share it have told them that’s not acceptable?

Every single thing we do is a choice

Teens are able, and do, make bad choices as well as good ones

That doesn't mean they didn't consent by making that bad choice

"Huh everyone else seems to do it so I'll try it too" is not the same as "I don't want to do this but he won't shut up unless I do so I'll say yes to make it easier"