To think promiscuous men should be shamed more?

Nobody should be shamed for being promiscuous.

Men who go on about “bodycount” are misogynists and should be ignored.

Who cares? The only world in which one appears to care about body count is yours by all accounts based on the way your articulate your first post.

There is a plethora of different people, some who want to chalk up as many notches as possible and those that don't, and many a number in-between.

Truth be told, no one gives a fuck, and respectfully it's none of your business either way.

They didn’t give me grief. They were really good friends.

It was the unspoken expectation in the circles at the time l struggled with. I don’t think l was that unusual. I knew others like me. We used to call ourselves ‘the unspoken minority’

I just opted out. It was the only way. Horrible time of my life.

I didn't want to either and I didn't. I have never felt like a failure or a freak and I've never felt shame for not being up for casual sex. That seems like a self esteem issue honestly.

I'm very sorry you experienced this. I've got to say it's not usual. I hope the counselling helped, because there must've been some reason you felt so very bad about being different from your friends in this way.

I would say I've felt shame about not being able to play ball games! I'm not taking the piss - my hand/eye co-ordination simply doesn't work like that, and people have often been incredulous that anyone could be so bad. It's been really embarrassing at times. It is what it is. I don't take this to mean people shouldn't play ball games or invite their friends to join in.

I do think they shouldn't pressure someone to join if the person says they can't do it. Same in your case - your friends must've been very insensitive if they gave you grief for not liking casual sex.

But l was too young at the time and felt immense pressure. Spent a lot of time on and off anti depressants and in counselling because of it.

Yep, your advice to your younger self would be spot-on!

It wasn’t like that,

When l was a student everyone was having one night stands. It was just normal. And expected.

And l couldn’t do it. So l felt a failure and a freak.

Its easy for those who feel comfortable and happy to argue that it’s fine to do it.

But it makes those of us who can’t feel like crap. As one night stands seem to be the norm.

Im 60 now, but still think the same. It’s not for everyone, but those who don’t want to feel shame for not being able to.

Im married, but if l couldn’t go back to my younger self l’d tell her not to care.

Erm - okay. How did society know about your sexual activity?

Society

That sounds horrible. Who was applying this pressure?

A lot of young women feel under immense pressure to screw around when they don’t want to.

I was a real mess in my 20’s because l couldn’t do it.

Indeed. Most effective.

It’d be possible, I think, to make the case that society uses shame as a control mechanism when there’s not really a consistent moral or practical argument against whatever it is they want to prohibit.

But as the OP brought up the possibility of debating its morality, that’s the aspect I’d like her view on.

Nobody's said that women should be as promiscuous as some men, @CoffeeCantata! Only that both women and men should be free to do what suits them, safety and consent permitting.

Female promiscuity plays into the hands of unscrupulous men IF you believe it's women's job to stop unscrupulous men having a varied sex life. I don't, why would I? I've had some very nice encounters with unscrupulous men. No woman who doesn't want to shag an unscrupulous man is under any obligation to do so.

You seem to be operating under the fallacy that 'modern feminists' (I'm an original 2nd-waver, by the way) want to force young women to screw around. What a bloody stupid assumption.

You also seem to think women must, for some reason, withhold sex in order to coerce men into relationships. That isn't how it works.

Feminism's about liberating women from patriarchal oppression. Trying to manipulate the oppressor class by making yourself less free to express yourself doesn't really look like a brilliant strategy. I mean, we've been doing that for 3,000 years and it hasn't worked yet, has it?

Both women and men want sex, both want relationships. Many long-term relationships begin with sex on the first date.

But you’ve started your post with an incredibly judgmental and pejorative remark!

People are allowed to have different attitudes to sexual politics. Calling someone a puritan is OK, but using other insults isn’t?

And I don’t care either what consenting adults do as long as both parties are aware it’s just sex. I think men in particular often try to give the impression they’re up for more to manipulate women, and that’s not fair.

I don't think men or women should be shamed for having casual sex, as really, what consenting adults choose to do doesn't matter.
I think there should be a higher stigma attached to men who have casual sex and create pregnancies when they have no intention of taking the responsibility of a father. I also think that obtaining consent by deception should be stigmatised and in serious cases criminalised, as it is.
As far as the other things go, no one is forcing you to use that crass term 'body count' and go along with those ideas. If a man who has had multiple partners is off putting to you, then discount these men from your dating pool.

I don't think anybody should be shamed for promiscuous behaviour men or women. Quite frankly I don't care what 2 (or more) consenting adults get up to or what they choose to do with their bodies. Only people's sex lives I'm bothered about (and the only one that's any of my business) is mine and my husbands.

@GarlicPint The Sex Myth by Rachel Hills is the book I was trying to remember.

Absolutely 100% disagree!

neither sex should be shamed for having sex.

as long as both parties consent then frankly it's nobody's business. And no one should judge.

I agree with other posters - it's not casual sex that's the issue, it's the double standards.

Anyone, male or female should be free to shag who they like if they are single and consenting. There's no shame attached to sex itself, it's just an outdated social construct. The shame should be for those that cheat if in a monogamous relationship.

100%. I’m in my forties and when I was younger there was a lot of calling women slags if they were seen as promiscuous etc (that wasn’t invented by Gen Z) but as you get older you barely think about it.

You’re conflating different things. You can sleep with a lot of people without treating them badly (physically or emotionally) or being misogynistic. As you say, people have always shamed women for sleeping around, it’s not a Gen Z thing. You don’t fix shame by adding more shame.

Gosh you’re quite the little puritan.

I am in my 40s and I cannot tell you the peace that comes with realising that actually you don’t have to give a fuck about what other people do, if it doesn’t affect you.

I don’t know if there’s a ‘male’ equivalent of MN (I do realise MN doesn’t exclude men, but I’d guess they’re in the minority), but if so, I wonder if there are numerous sad posts from men who’ve been hurt by a woman who deceived them into sex with the promise (too strong a word…perhaps implication) of an actual relationship. MN often contains such posts and I find them depressing in their predictability.

Do you really not see that things like OLD and the idea that women should be as promiscuous as some men plays absolutely into the hands of the most cynical and unscrupulous men? I bet OLD was dreamt up by a man! And that’s OK - just admit it’s a way for men and women (in the case we’re discussing) to hook up for casual sax. I have no issue with that. But that ISN’T how OLD is sold. It’s sold as a way to find a relationship, and that adversely affects women more than men - I’d put money on it.

I don’t understand how the above is incompatible with feminism. Damn - there’s a very feminist book on this very topic - the myth of sexual freedom - which argues this and I can’t remember the title or author. Will try and find it.

Bizarre OP, all people should be able to choose how many and who they want to sleep with. Sadly too many cultures and faiths stifle the sexual experiences and maturity of huge numbers of men and women, that is what needs to be called out.

It’s really no one else’s business as long as it is consensual which is probably a tough concept to grasp for curtain twitching prudes…