Tom Phillips - any Kiwis (or others who know the story) want to discuss?

I definitely get the impression his family are involved. He was well equipped and I doubt it was the work of keyboard warrior nut jobs you get on Facebook.

I find it really interesting that they refused to speak out in any way until a couple of months ago. It’s been going on for four years - they could have reached out to him publicly at any point, but there’s no need to do that if you are having semi regular contact anyway. His behaviour has become more risky and then suddenly they are willing to talk. It’s possible they’ve become more concerned that he’s spiralling, but there doesn’t seem to be a catalyst for the spiral. It’s also possible that they’ve fallen out or felt they’ve lost control of the situation so are speaking out now.

I 100% don’t believe that they haven’t seen him for fours years, or that he was was in the bush for every single one of those nights.

I can see how it sort of snowballed for him. You start off taking your kids into the bush over Christmas, pissed off at being charged with wasting police resources when you never asked the fuckers to come looking for you, and you think, "They are my kids to raise as I see fit." Then it all spirals into this huge shitshow, you go to ground, you get help but also sleep wild, it drags on, you outwit them completely, and then after years there is footage of you all in the media taken by some random pig hunters on the horizon, the people helping you get jittery, your family get fed up and tell you to turn yourself in, you stop trusting anybody, you start robbing more and more to feed your kids, you realise the police are close and have recent footage of you robbing with your kid in tow and you are going to do a long prison sentence if they get you, then it happens-- a cop disables your getaway vehicle and in blind rage and fear you pepper him with bullets because you aren't going down so easily, they aren't just going to take your kids... then you're dead.

There's a surprising amount of support for him

I'm hearing a lot of narrative about a hero dad persecuted for taking his kids out of a corrupt system. Particularly by off grid, home schooling types of which there are plenty

There's lots of mistrust against social services/cps so lots feel he was looking out for his kids

Over the years there have been some articles where the parents have smiled or smirked when they have been asked about their son and grandchildren. I would be very surprised if they weren’t involved in helping him, even if it was indirectly.

The part of the world he was living in wasn’t hospitable and to stay predominantly out of sight for most of four years, when there are three children involved, is incredibly unlikely without a lot of help. We know he got hold of guns, weapons, quad bikes, fuel, gas canisters and various drinks that could be evidenced in the camp.

I know it's not a police decision but what leapt out to me was that after four years apart (allegedly) you'd expect the grandparents to be desperate to see the kids and it was interesting that the police didn't mention or acknowledge this. The last case I can remember like this was Shannon Matthews and this is throwing up a few similarities to me.

From what I understand there is a belief that the parents either helped him or else they kept quiet when their information could have ensured he was found much sooner. As for the mother, she is believed to have had addiction problems and I would also suspect that in the last four or more years that there could have been some parental alienation taking place towards her.

As a result it could be that right now it’s not felt the children will feel safe and secure with either. Those dealing with children in care may consider the grandparents to be at risk of prosecution (so it’s not appropriate to home the children there) and the mother might need to be a gradual reintroduction (assuming she is considered healthy enough to have the children).

Well it isn't a police decision is it. That's solely the province of the social services and the court.

Yes I found this part of the report quite telling "Police also said they have informed their mother Cat, as well as Phillips' parents, that the children have been found and are safe. However Rogers declined to comment on whether the mother and grandparents will be involved in ongoing care of the children".

It was fairly widely reported at the time they went missing (the second time) that he’d lost custody and the kids were with his parents as guardians.

it will be interesting to see if the kids go to his parents. His dad has made some quite derogatory comments about police competency previously and they defended Tom for quite a while. Appreciate it’s really tricky and they were probably trying to keep him inside, but equally they probably need to be with people who can give them a balanced perspective on the situation, at least at first.

He had lost custody by that point.

Thank you @FuzzyWolf

I wonder why he had custody but still went and hid with the children?

NZ Herald started the speculation about a baby. At the press conference, before the other two children had been found, they said “The Herald understands that there may also be a baby missing with the other children, can you give us any information about that?” The police commissioner answer “no I’m sorry, I can’t.” It’s at roughly 36:37: https://www.youtube.com/live/8SxfPaBM2h4?si=LV21wWUONe6-TPit&t=2187

Following this press conference there was an injunction and the news articles that had been written about the possibility or wild rumour of a baby was removed.

There might not be a baby but there is an injunction and the police in NZ have avoided ending the speculation by giving evasive answers when questioned or refusing to comment.

He had custody of the children and was homeschooling them following the breakdown of his relationship with the mother. Something happened (possibly to do with the first disappearance) and then his parents had custody and they had custody at the time he disappeared in December 2021.

Since the only mentions of the mother being a drug abuser seem to be vague, sourceless internet rumours I'm wondering if they were put out there by the Phillips family to try and garner sympathy for what he was doing.

Some things I’ve read say that he had custody of the children and the mother was involved with drugs and he fled after she was given visitation rights.

Other reports say she had custody and he’s carpeted with the children as he wanted custody.

Whatever the reason it was a truly awful thing to put the children through and deny them a normal childhood and relationships with other family members and of course other children.

I also read that before he took them he had been home schooling them.

Can you throw any light on any of this op?

"The cop who shot Phillips without letting Jayda be harmed is also a hero"

Yes especially as the first cop was already down and unable to assist. Good shooting under pressure given the danger to the child and police.

It isn't an accurate statement anyway - the lawyer mentioned in the article was hired by his family, not by her.

Isn't she just trying to protect her children?
They don't need their whole lives or the lives of their parents discussed by everyone. No one wants that whether there is anything to hide or not

I don't understand why they haven't been reunited with their Mother straight away, unless I am missing something?

I expect they will want to find out what they remember/believe/have been told about their mother. It may do more harm than good if they rush into a reunion if the younger ones have little or no memory of her and have been taught to hate her.

And they will need medical checks, and possibly vaccinations, if the younger ones have missed out on any childhood vax.

Someone up thread suggested his parents were guardians when the kids were taken. Ie Niether Mother nor Father had custody.

is that correct? In which case I would expect the children to go back to them, not the mother.
in any case the kids will need to be reviewed by health and social services AND safe next steps agreed with the family.

those poor kids. It’s truly awful. I hope they get the love, space and support they will need.

They've had four years of indoctrination from their psycho father about what a useless bitch their mum is. That's nearly half the smallest one's life. Her real memories of her mother will be very faint and tainted. It was the grandparents who had custody anyway. The mum should have more sense than to talk to the media about any of this or confirm this or that, very naive, hope she gets a better adviser.

The cop who was shot was indeed very brave. He undoubtedly in my head saved all those children's lives as Phillips was clearly spiralling. The cop is apparently a father of young ones himself; I pray he makes a full recovery and gets every fucking medal in the book.

The cop who shot Phillips without letting Jayda be harmed is also a hero

I don't understand why they haven't been reunited with their Mother straight away, unless I am missing something?