To think most men are filthy losers

Why is them wanking together vile? Not hurting women, just doing stuff to themselves.

What if women masturbated together? Rare, but would that be evil too?

As I said upthread, this is why I'm confused by the argument that men only release oxytocin in sex so need it to feel loved. If that's true, why do they seem to attach little emotion to sex so much of the time, ONS, porn etc which women tend not to do?

I agree w pps that men watching each other wanking seems harmless. I get it was a horrible shock, OP, but they weren't harming women, just doing stuff to themselves. It seems silly more than dangerous or scary.

Have you called him out? He may be a grown up but you are his mother still.

I think it's good though that women judges are less lenient if men are TOO lenient.

Seems to contradict the MRA argument that women have more bias in favour of their own gender than men do

Look on the Reddit porn subs. Lots of members, really violent & hateful stuff, a lot of it. MOST men do not think that way. But when you first come across it's a shock that it's more than one wants to think. See also what happened to Gisele Pelicot.

I suspect OP has had a similar realisation from the dating apps. It's horrible but OP you must remember this is NOT most men, though it IS far too many.

Tbf Are You Being Served had loads of jokes about Mrs Slocombe's pussy. And that was back in the 70s supposed to be a family show!

A lot of male soldiers are very brave and we should respect that. Obvs that doesn't apply to ones who commit war crimes. But it's v wrong to dismiss them like that. Female soldiers are brave too, ofc.

Menopause isn't an excuse for bad behaviour or abusing anyone.

Do you think only low libido women find the men on dating sites like that disgusting?

I'm not sure why this thread is allowed, it wouldn't be about any other group.

😂😂

Have you actually met any human beings? Or even read any other threads on MN?
Off the top of my head:
Benefit claimants
Rich people
"Immigrants" and related euphemisms
Anyone with an opinion about vaccinations
Women who sleep with married men
Old people / Boomers
Gen Z/Alpha
... and so many more ...

Those groups aren't being accused of the same kind of depravity outlined in this thread, which is male-specific and not the main complaint with other groups, but they're handed quite a lot more vitriol. While every complaint may have a kernel of truth worth examining, few (if any) come with the same weight of evidence and relevant personal experiences as this one.

As ever on Mumsnet: If you expected approximately 8 million UK women to demonstrate acquiescence, malleability, and to #BeKind no matter what - you're on the wrong forum. Go and read a tradwives board or a manosphere hub or something.

Some, many or most, how do you even know?

• How many men are secretly viewing child SA?
• How many men were willing to rape Gisele Pelicot?
• How many men were willing to see an advert to rape Gisele Pelicot and said nothing?
• Which men are in that group chat of 77K men who share how to rape their wives, daughters etc etc etc
• Afghanistan (enough said?)

How can we be haranguing women for using most, many or some when the above and much worse is happening even as we speak?

No, I can't relate. I am someone who's first boyfriend was one of these awful men. I hate him even 30 years on. I have lots of men in my life. Family. Friends and colleagues. Many of them are good people and definitely not losers.

Perhaps I'm lucky that I've never done OLD and at my age in my 50's I wouldn't bother.

I'm really happy that it's allowed. Men have places all over the internet where they can say what they like about women - and they do.

I think there are two problems:

• some boys and men do terrible things and don't respect women, which is not right

• Boys and men are told they are bad and wrong for even existing, which is not right

Both of these things can be true at the same time

Firstly, the fact that a great deal of men are horrible, vile people - predatory, violent, rapists, murderers and utter scum not even worthy of being called animals - isn't something that needs debating. It's fact.

Secondly, OP is actually allowed her opinion, and is allowed to voice it. Her experience has taught her that most men are filthy losers. She isn't inciting anything, calling for violence or otherwise, she's simply stating her opinion. Yes it's an uncomfortable one and probably one that many women thankfully can't relate to. But many women can.

It's as enraging as assholes who go on about how all women are slags and out to get men for all they can.

Those guys have lots of examples too.

I'm not sure why this thread is allowed, it wouldn't be about any other group.

I agree. As the mother of a son it really concerns me. Both he and his father have done our damndest to raise him as a considerate member of society who doesn't view women as service humans or despise them simply for speaking or taking up space. We've tried to lead by that example and we don't hold with 'toxic masculinity' stereotypes or the 'boys will be boys' mentality.

But there's a caveat. Like most mothers I think my son is lovely. He's a kind, intelligent, empathetic child. My fear is that don't raise our kids in a vacuum. Given the way men are raised and socially conditioned, the influences he might be subjected to outside the home do worry me.

Disclaiming responsibility, thinking our own can do no wrong and refusing to see what's beyond the end of our noses will do nothing at all to help the situation. Parents all have a responsibility to raise our boys to be better men - it starts in childhood.

And no, it's not all men. But enough of them are like that to make life for women a real problem on a more-or-less daily basis. It is not being 'bigoted' to point out that fact.

It is actually really enraging, this 'not all men' thing, or 'not even most men'.

The thread is full of real life experiences of men who appeared to be lovely family men from the outside and were terrible within the relationship or as parents/grandparents. My heart goes out to you all, honestly.

I know a man who is a model husband and father. He has terrorised various employees repeatedly to the extent that he's lost jobs. He solicits his colleagues for same-sex orgies. That man's wife thinks he's a bit edgy with his humour and that's why people don't like him!

You have got to be aware that while there are men who never do things like this, and who are lovely and loving, NOBODY can tell which they are!

Pretending you said "all men

It's not MOST men.

There are some awful, dangerous men out there but why exaggerate?

A debate on SOME men would be more truthful.

I'd ask you to prove that but you absolutely can't.

I can relate to some of the experiences on here.
I was brought up with a misogynistic, abusive father who treated my mother and me with complete disregard. On the surface he was a respectable pillar of society but he regularly cheated on my mother and used prostitutes. Nobody in our middle class life would have seen beneath his veneer.
l learnt to keep out of his way, stay quiet, never to express any emotions and as a result I became a people pleaser with low self esteem and zero boundaries.
My two main relationships were in a lavender marriage- my husband having sex with men on his way home from work ( I found out when I caught a STD) He treated me with utter disdain after I had the children. Again, nobody would have ever guessed what went on behind closed doors. When I told him I wanted a divorce he raped me and pushed his car keys into my neck.
I escaped from him and married someone I knew from my childhood. I also knew all his family who were lovely. I felt like I had made a better choice in my second marriage and I felt safe. How wrong I was! It turned out he was a prolific cheater and also used prostitutes regularly. Like I said about my father and first husband, no one would have ever known. They came across as decent, good men who would help anyone out.
Throughout my life I was constantly groped at school (as were other girls)
I was pinned down by a man on the dance floor as I didn’t want to do a slow dance with him and he aggressively sucked and bit my neck leaving me with a horrible “love bite”
I was sunbathing in the park (decently clothed, just lying down, enjoying the lovely weather) and a man started masturbating over me.
I was sitting on the bus and a man put his fingers inside me as he was just about to get off the bus (again I wasn’t dressed provocatively, I was a sexually inexperienced 16 year old wearing an ordinary summer dress).
Since I have been single I have been approached by married men (friend’s husbands and work men ) for sex. I have not encouraged these men and I have shut down any sexual approaches immediately.
I think like OP I have tried to be nice and “kind” all my life but I realise this has not served me well. Since having counselling last year have firmer boundaries but I really feel the blame for these behaviours I’ve encountered should not be laid at my door. Nor should OP be victim blamed

MOST aren't though.

Easy 😂 All you have to do is say "I think men are/do ..." followed by anything less than uncritically admiring, and you will be swamped by frothing & fuming replies:

• Pretending you said "all men"
• Diagnosing various deep character flaws in you
• Trying (and failing) to turn it back on "all women"
• Refuting any evidence that you may have a point
• Denying that men make obnoxious generalisations about women
• Accusing you of bigotry 🙄

More rules of misogyny:

8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12. Women’s ability to recognize male behaviour patterns is misandry.

Good job the thread title doesn't say that then...

A lot of posters have sympathy for other women and realise how awful some men can be. Calling ALL men filthy and losers is lying.

I think some of the responses crying 'it's not all men, it's not fair' are from men, but a good lot are from women.

First rule of the patriarchy is 'blame women' but the second rule is 'it's SO much easier if you can get women to blame women. Less work for men!'

The whole point about having problems with men is that we have literally no idea which men are going to do the worst things they can to us, wherever they draw their individual lines. So going through life with an evolving sense of the extent of men's depravity is the only sane option.

You discount other women's standpoints at your peril. You discount their testimony on individuals at your peril. No man will reward a woman for being on his side.