To want to address parenting styles with my oldest friend

Don't have "the conversation" about her parenting. Honestly, it's absolutely none of your business how she parents

Meet up one more time with the children. Intervene should your child be upset in some way. But intervene gently without apportioning obvious blame

After this, don't meet up with the children again for a couple of years. Just meet up with your friend. Tell her that your child finds 121 play dates a bit overwhelming right now

This is a terrible idea. Obviously do not tell her she is a bad mum! Address behavioural issues in the moment: "Ian, let Mark have a go now please". Or see her without your kids.

Coming out the other side of parenting (mine late teen) do not say anything. No good comes of it. You trash your friendship and she won’t listen anyway.

I would be breezy “the boys aren’t really getting on at the moment let’s just us meet up” if you value the friendship.

But then I am in a local friendship group where our kids have done all sorts to each others kids (up to and including one teens parents calling the police about a recalcitrant teen) yet we are still all great friends. The young adults all leaving home now off to start their own lives it’s all water under the bridge. We are all still friends.

This 100% .. I also can’t believe your husband is suggesting you ditch a 35 year friendship over parenting styles.. utterly bizarre

@BubbalaDetalla You are not being very clear in your OP. Can you please give us an example of what you mean with friend not intervening. What exactly was her son doing? Hitting/kicking saying vile things/putting your ds down? Or was it that he was just more confident and wanted to decide what t9 play all the time? If the latter this would be excellent training for your ds to assert himself. If former she and her son def needs to be told that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable. I would talk to all 4 of them, gently but firmly, stating that it's great to have fun and play but if there is any hitting/kicking or saying mean things to anyone I have to take DS and leave immediately because that is not how we treat friends. Once the rules laid out you will see if her ds will behave, if not then you will have to leave and not see your friend with children again until he's learnt how to behave.

How she raises her child isn't really any of your business. I can't imagine many people would take kindly to being pulled up on something like that, especially if as you say there are potentially deep seated issues at the root of it.

If you don't like the way her kid behaves around yours, address that behavior at the time ("Can you tell Billy to stop being so rough with Timmy?"). She'll either get the message or she won't.

If she asks you both over just tell her that you dont think her DS really likes your DS very much, that they don’t get on. Leave it that. Say you’ll meet up just the two of you.

No of course you can’t tell your friend she isn’t parenting properly for goodness sake. You only see a snapshot of their day and you have no idea what the dynamic really is at home. You seem very sure that your approach is the correct one - thats a mistake. Just don’t meet them again if you don’t want to spend time with them.

It will go horribly. Just reading your post made me irritated on her behalf. The only conversation you need is one where you tell her you think its better to meet up without the boys for a while as they seem to be going through a not getting on stage, so how about the two of you go for drinks instead.

That’s going to go down like a bucket full of cold sick.

criticising someone’s parenting never goes well.

I agree criticising her parenting directly won't go down well. Agree with others about either meeting without kids, or if you need to bring kids then just deal with any bad behaviour yourself. And keep the meet up relatively short.

If Fred is pushing George, you don't have to single Fred out directly, you can just do a firm but cheery "Oi, no pushing please, let's go and do x".

Sometimes I've actually said to my kids beforehand, "Listen, if Fred is naughty I'll tell you all to stop it as a group but really I mean Fred". That prevents the "but it wasn't me it was Fred!".

I'm never rude or mean to other people's kids but I'll definitely step in if they're being a little so-and-so and the parent isn't dealing with it.

As other people have said, meeting up without kids is the easiest option.

If you decide to say something, I wouldn't talk about her 'parenting style' as that will only get her back up. But you could maybe mention specific incidents - eg if he pushed your son/snatched toys off him etc and how that upset your son. To be honest though, even if she does step in, I'm not sure the dynamic with your kids will shift much in a short period of time.

You need to elaborate on 'quite dominating' with your DS and explain what he was doing.

You many also need to address YOUR parenting, it may possibly be that you need to teach your DS to stand up for himself a bit more.. a shy/gentle child will be a target for bullying/pushing around, and if you keep intervening rather than teach him how to sort those situations himself, he'll never learn, and he'll forever be a walkover/doormat.

My ExSIL was one of those parents.. intervening the moment her darling child looked unhappy, or slightly put out, demonising the other kids who were just playing normally. Making out a tiny scratch was the end of the world rather than 'oh dear, it's ok, nothing bad, keep playing' after a quick check & hug and brush off. Her daughter would cry if i so much as raised my voice at MY children, never mind her.

You may not be as extreme as her, but rather than demonise your friends parenting, take a look at your own, and see if you can change a few things, rather than thinking you're perfect and she needs pulling up.

I've got no good advice because in my case we just arent good friends any more.

She's like an acquaintance and we are sort of polite strangers.
4 years ago I saw her 2-4 x per month... this year I haven't started all. i think i haven't seen her since before Christmas.

I dont know how a convo can go well.

your lifestyles (read: children) mean you are now fundamentally incompatible.

Stick to adults only stuff

I’d mention it, you’ve nothing to lose if
you’re going to let the friendship slide. My comment would be like “the boys didn’t play well last time so I think we need to manage them a bit better alternately if you’re free for a coffee without the kids let me know”

I agree with trying to forge ahead with spending time with her without the children. Bringing up her parenting style with her is never going to go well and the friendship will almost certainly bite the dust if you do this.
That said, if you do have to meet up with the children sometimes, I don’t think there is anything wrong with addressing behaviours as they arise or prompting her to. This might be taken as less of a criticism than having a more abstract discussion about it because you can tie it directly to the behaviour you are both seeing.
‘Look, Jack has just pushed/ taken the toy off of/been rude to Harry’. She may or may not do something about it, but she’ll get the message that you are noticing his negative behaviour. If she does nothing, say something like ‘can you ask him not to do that please?’ It’s best to do this when it’s something you know she has seen so she can’t deny it. If she refuses or does nothing then you should deal with it calmly. She’ll probably be annoyed, and you can use this is a starting point for a conversation if you like.
‘I didn’t mean to annoy you when I spoke to you about Jacks behaviour but I feel like you don’t do anything when he behave badly towards Harry’. Friends should be able to talk openly about stuff like this and if she can’t, she’s not much of a friend.
Or as I said, avoid meet ups with the children for now and perhaps he’ll mature.

Exactly this.

At 5 he will meet many similar children at school and at groups. You could use this as any opportunity to be very present and teach him how to deal with it kindly but effectively every time. Gradually let go a bit as it starts to take effect.

Easy this one - you meet up without them.

if she suggests the kids play say you don’t think they play that well together

im friends with loads of people and our kids dont gel or I think their parenting is odd - I just avoid the subject

I probably wouldn’t say anything. I would just meet up without the kids. I’ve had a similar situation where my friend would discipline my child the way she disciplines her own, it didn’t sit well with me so every time she suggested meeting up with the kids, I would just say let’s meet up without them instead.

It really depends. My brother checked me on my parenting when I had DD - I had insane PFB syndrome, he was on his third by then. I didn’t even take it well from my own brother, and it felt like an attack on me. Now we laugh about it and he will bring it up for a joke, but at the time I didn’t talk to him for a week and that’s the longest I’ve gone without speaking to him. People take these things really really personally and there’s no way around that.

If it was me, I’d probably wait till something happens and said “can you go and deal with that” or “are you going to sort him out or shall I?” Keep the focus on the child’s behaviour and not the parenting style.

If you want to keep the friendship then you can't say anything.

I've had friends who are obsessed with their kids and those cute kids turned into nightmares to be around.

That's when you suggest adult only activities that kids legally aren't allowed to come to. Like bingo or something.

Your dh said to let the friendship fade out 🥺

I think i would tell her. This woman sounds like there is more going on, and like she doesnt have anyone who loves her

Its up to you, if you truly love her and want her in your life, I would speak now. Dont make it a thing of 'everyone agrees with me' but tell her everything you've said here

I feel for her. I suspect there's a breakdown coming her way

That said, you have to protect your ds. I think its great that he is your priority ❤️, as it should be

I'd speak to the friend, either way x

God no. Deal with incidents, hand out together outside at doing thing events or without kids. If you want to stay friends.

If there is one surefire way to end a friendship, even and especially a long-standing and pre kids one, it is to criticise your friends parenting style or child! This is something I have seen happen time and again so proceed with extreme caution. I think the context you describe of your friend losing her own parents makes this even more sensitive and honestly, speaking from experience, you cannot solve this one and there are deep seated reasons for how she feels about and is parenting her child. You are either going to have to try to maintain a friendship without the children involved which will probably be tricky given the dynamic you describe or to go lower contact until the children are old enough to choose their own friendships.