Ex partner handing care of our daughter over to her mother and I'm not happy about it.

She’s realised that she can earn a lot of money doing overnight care. My DiL did 12 hour waking shifts 6 days a week for a while and she was earning in excess of £1000 a week. Waking nights are paid at a much higher rate. I also suspect there’s a new boyfriend in the mix somewhere, and DD is getting in the way. It appears, from what OP says, that this is a permanent arrangement - it’s not just nights away, his ex has said she doesn’t want DD split between three homes so grandma has full time care. OP is very much within his rights to not hand his DD over at the end of his contact time, because no court has granted grandma custody.

What made her change after 7 years of looking after her?

Rubbish.

Couldnt agree more.

@Neil90 s issue was posting honestly, as a man. He was always going to get a kicking purely because she is the mother and what she says goes in the minds of many.

If he had posted with the sexes reversed then the shouts of "dont send her back, get an emergency court order" etc would have been in the very first response!

I hate the "All mumsnetters are man hating bitches" narrative that is pedalled online, but its easy to see where it comes from on the basis of this thread.

The DD DOESN'T prefer it this way, that's the whole point. It's not about the OP or his ex or the grandmother. It's what's best for the DD. Being surrounded by smoke is not best for her. Sleeping on a sofa (no matter how comfy you can imagine it to be), is not a bed It's not normal. This little girl deserves a bedroom and she has two, but she's only allowed to sleep in the one at her Dad's. Can you honestly imagine telling your children they can't sleep in their own bed and have to sleep on a sofa for a week at a time? She must feel abandoned. And on top of that she is stuck within that flat unable to have a nice place to play, which she has at her Dad's.

I don't know why people think the grandmother should have more parental rights than the actual parent. Can you imagine a woman came on here and said my MIL has taken over ExH's responsibilities, so now my DC is living half the time with ex-MIL, sleeping on the couch in a smokey room with nowhere to safely place outside.

Anyone who says they'd tell the woman in this scenario to do anything other than refuse to send DC back until ExH provided a nice place to stay with a bed, is not being truthful.

I agree that is probably it, but as we were discussing, that is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Because she doesnt want to bring up her own child. She wants the time and money to live her best life, child free. Its pretty clear to me.

Its not always men who cant be arsed to parent.

If that was the issue, why would she want her kid living full time with a smoker? Least worst would be sleeping at grandmothers the two nights a week that she is working and at home the rest of the time.

I hope that’s not the reason because that’s frankly disgusting - a mum not wanting her house to smell of smoke so she sends her daughter to live in it.

The only thing I'm missing is why the ex doesn't want DD at home with her when she isn't working nights.

This is what I want to know.

I assume Grandmother isnt asked to look after the child at mothers house because of her smoking?

Any update from OP?

@ItsNotYou852 But I'm guessing you didn't have to take an evening job? How did you pay the rent and bills?

I really can't believe what I've just read here!
I was that single parent living in a private rental years ago, and if I'd had to take a job that meant either giving my son to my Mother for him to sleep on the sofa, with no room for any of his things around him or letting him go to his Dads it would have been a no brainer.
When you become a parent you stop putting yourself first and always think of the child, don't you?

Of course we don't have the Exs side of the story, that's how it works here. Maybe she has really good reasons for her decisions, except that she is not being fair to her daughter.
She isn't having an occasional night on Nan's sofa, she is doing 7 nights straight. With none of her belongings and comforts around her.
Even if you truly believe smoking around a child and making them sleep on a sofa in the living room is not a problem, can you not see the damage this might be causing?
We don't know if Mum discussed it with her daughter and reassured her that she was still loved. We only know that the little girl has already said she is unhappy with the situation.
Leaving aside all the nonsense about classism and "driving the Ex to despair" the important thing is that little girl and her feelings!

@Neil90 I know you indicated that you have already spoken with Ex about the situation, but is it worth asking for a proper sit down and talk with her, just an open and honest adult conversation?
I'm sure that you both want what's best for your daughter, maybe there's room for some negotiation and reassurance? Maybe helping with transport or whatever is needed for Grandma to stay at Ex's house, maybe changing your week on, week off arrangement to something more flexible around her work nights?
I do agree with the poster who said that it would be best to keep it as amicable as possible for the little girls sake, nothing worse than battling parents.
But if all else fails, go for full custody, your daughter deserves to know somebody is putting her first!

No, we don't think she's clever.

I’m insulted

This is not correct. OP has PR and his ex has effectively handed her parenting responsibilities full time to the childs’ grandmother. OP was clear on this - his ex doesn’t want the child moving between three homes, so she is living full time with the grandmother. There is no court order mandating that the grandmother has custody so OP is within his rights to refuse to hand his DD back. It will then be up to the mother whether she wants to challenge this herself through the courts, or OP can do this himself. The DD herself will have her wishes taken into account as she’s old enough to say what she wants.

It's well known that male relatives including fathers and stepfathers are a higher risk of SA than female relatives.

Just to be clear, if this exact same situation was in place except that it was a Dad who had moved his daughter in with her Grandfather and OP was the Mum, you would be absolutely fine with that as long as the Grandfather was not sexually abusing the daughter?

"Not being molested" is a very low bar to set for children's wellbeing.

Let's hope so in this case as it's a completely unsuitable environment for a child to spend any time.

I cannot understand why you think it is fine for this mum to shove her daughter off to her mum instead of letting her live with her dad!! The little girl has two parents, one wants her, the other has sent her off to her mums house. Yes children sleep on sofas in their parents home, it’s not ideal but that’s not the main point here - it’s that it’s not her parents house!! (& the smoking- I’d go to court every day of the week to get my child out of a smokers house) This is a no brainer and I expect the court will agree.

I have a family member who was sexually abused by
a grandfather from 3 - 6 and I consider an 8 year old girl alone with a grandfather, uncle older brother etc to potentially to be in danger.

It is not that. uncommon. If you think you can swap a grandmother for a grandfather that is your view but one I entirely disagree with, even though, of course, not all grandfathers are like that.

I think this is different though. Mum is not leaving DD with Grandma to babysit. DD has moved in with Grandma completely. She also doesn't have her own bed. The court definitely asks questions about where the child sleeps and stores their belongings.

I wouldn't be happy with my child being in that environment either. Can you prove the state of grandma's flat if you had to? You won't be able to change things unless you go to court but in my experience from my husbands experience and other people I know who have been through court is that generally you cannot say who a child can be around in the time the child spends with her unless for very good reason (and even then it's not your decision it's the courts) even if she's there all of mums 50%. What I'd advise you to do is get some legal advice? You usually can get half and hour to an hour free with most solicitors so do that before you go any further.

I am wondering how many of the commenters here have put their own child in this situation or worse and that's why they've taken this so personally.

Its absolutely not acceptable. If you fell on hard times, the other parent was MIA and you had to take a substandard living arrangement for a short time (and FWIW if I was stuck in a 1 bed flat with an 8 yo, I'd be on the sofa and she'd be in the bedroom on a proper bed- and I'm an ex-smoker who quit the moment I found out I was pregnant and never once smoked indoors or in front of my stepdaughter) then that's one thing.

If you CHOSE to put your child in that position, especially after they told you they didn't want it, when your child had another safe, loving home to go to, you were selfish and putting your own wants to be around your kids above their right to have a healthy environment to live in.

In this case, the mother isn't even being around her. She's either doing it to spite the father or for money.

@ScrollingLeaves To me though it just feels that something is missing and doesn’t quite make sense:

The only thing I'm missing is why the ex doesn't want DD at home with her when she isn't working nights.
I suspect she has a new BF who she wants to spend her nights off with and they don't want DD in the way. The 'don't want her spread across 3 homes' thing is just an excuse.

Thank you

You've explained it perfectly

Insane because he doesn't want his DD sleeping on a sofa in a dirty smoky flat? Dear me...

@ScrollingLeaves Yes I am with you on this one. The story doesnt ring right for the reasons you have given.