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To think the school could have cut DS some slack here

270 replies

Sprogonthetyne · 02/09/2025 17:33

DS is autistic, really struggles with school in general but especially when there's transitions and change, so the start of term is hard for him. He's been crying and having anxiety attacks about going back to school for the last week and is only a hairs breath away from school refusal. He went back today and had a really good morning, which took an enormous amount of effort from him.

This afternoon he got told off for using his glue stick wrongly. Not inappropriately, just spreading glue across the whole surface he was sticking (as preferd by last year's teacher) instead of a dot in each corner (preferd by this years teacher), and this completely unravelled him. He'd been trying so hard to manage the big changes and hold everything together, so the unfairness of still being in trouble despite his effort and for something minor that he didn't even know had changed pushed him over the edge and he ended up having a meltdown (which I know isn't ideal, I'm not defending his reaction).

While I know I aught to suport the school, I can't help but feel they could really have picked their battles and just left the kid to glue however he wants.

OP posts:
Sprogonthetyne · 05/09/2025 08:00

BengalBangle · 04/09/2025 23:52

When you speak about 'they' needing to 'get their revenge', are you pertaining to staff, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!
Plus, did your DC's 1-2-1 actually use the words 'told off'/'telling off'.
I find some of your language hyperbolic, as losing free time for 'reflection' is a consequence, rather than a more inflammatory 'punishment'.
I've got twin DC in mainstream primary, one of whom has an EHCP and risk assessment for 'challenging behaviour'; she (Twin 2) also has a 1-2-1.
Twin 2 is hypersensitive to/hyoervigilant around tone and doesn't always understand phraseological nuance.
For me, as her Mum, it can be like walking on eggshells, so fuck knows how difficult it must be for her 1-2-1 (who has worked with her for 2 years).
Fixating on glue sticks, what you perceive to be an unfair consequence and how incorrectly/inadequately the 1-2-1, and/or SENCo have managed/responded to this sounds...exhausting.
If you feel the specificity within the EHCP is lacking, this can be raised at the annual review.
In the meantime, it's the beginning of a long academic year. Is it really worth ruminating over?
You seem to 'need' to be right.
You've sent 20,000 glue sticks in; I think yoi have made your point.

Consequences for bad choices I fully suport, because they can help the child make better choices in the future. Consequences for something the child had no control over do not serve that purpose.

A meltdown is shit for every involved, it's awful for the staff managing in but it's also awful for the child, to have his brain chemistry go haywire and fill him with adrenaline, while he watches from inside his head with no control over what his body is doing, it's painfull and terrifying for DS. If he had a choices over wether a meltdown happened he would already be choosing not to, because meltdowns are awful, not because of the effect on future playtime.

I think the priority here should be preventing it happening again, which would be better for DS, the staff and for every one else. Looking at why the meltdown happened, what feelings were involved, helping DS process those feelings, thinking about signs that we can look out for next time, or if there was trigger that can be avoided in future, are things that are actually helpful to the objective of preventing a meltdown.

Treating it like bad behaviour, where you punish it and move on is not the answer, not just because the punishment is unfair, but because it does nothing the stop it happening again.

OP posts:
BengalBangle · 04/09/2025 23:52

Sprogonthetyne · 03/09/2025 22:55

He did miss playtime (as they had already said he would), but that doesn't really feel like the most important battle. Having a meltdown is infinitely more distressing to him then missing playtime, so to me the more important thing is trying to reduce risk of future meltdowns (we all know punishing him will have zero effect on that). If they feel they need to get their revenge before they are able to discuss how to avoid meltdowns, then that unfortunately it is what it is. Focusing on the play time, would detract from me trying to explain what triggered it.

I think I got them to understand that telling him off when when he wasn't intentionally doing anything wrong felt unfair to him, so hopefully they will keep that in mind

When you speak about 'they' needing to 'get their revenge', are you pertaining to staff, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!
Plus, did your DC's 1-2-1 actually use the words 'told off'/'telling off'.
I find some of your language hyperbolic, as losing free time for 'reflection' is a consequence, rather than a more inflammatory 'punishment'.
I've got twin DC in mainstream primary, one of whom has an EHCP and risk assessment for 'challenging behaviour'; she (Twin 2) also has a 1-2-1.
Twin 2 is hypersensitive to/hyoervigilant around tone and doesn't always understand phraseological nuance.
For me, as her Mum, it can be like walking on eggshells, so fuck knows how difficult it must be for her 1-2-1 (who has worked with her for 2 years).
Fixating on glue sticks, what you perceive to be an unfair consequence and how incorrectly/inadequately the 1-2-1, and/or SENCo have managed/responded to this sounds...exhausting.
If you feel the specificity within the EHCP is lacking, this can be raised at the annual review.
In the meantime, it's the beginning of a long academic year. Is it really worth ruminating over?
You seem to 'need' to be right.
You've sent 20,000 glue sticks in; I think yoi have made your point.

Sprogonthetyne · 04/09/2025 12:20

napody · 04/09/2025 11:39

Understood. The smile was a poor recommendation which I later retracted in response to the OP, suggesting 'saying OK with a serious face is fine too' Dont you think the 'okay' makes sense? I find sometimes children need a clear 'recipe' for a situation they find difficult. Being taught that an instruction needs to be actively accepted so that things can move on is useful. It 'completes the circle', the person giving the instruction knows that it was received and understood, and it draws a line under it.

The saying okay advice is fine for kids who have a better understanding of the communication that is happening, and just need a tweek, but not so much for kids like mine.

Firstly, not every instruction given is going to be "received and understood" due to his process issue, but if he's been told that "okay" is what he is expected to say, he's going to say it, wether he has any idea what they said or not, leading to them getting more frustrated when they later realised he didn't understand.

Secondly, it's not the right response in every situation, and DS wouldn't know when to apply it. For instance:

"You wrote that in pencil and it should be in green pen" - okay is a fine response

"You dropped a £2000000
Fabergé egg out of a third story window" - okay doesn't really cover it (this has obviously never happened)

DS would know that the person in both sanarios was unhappy with something he'd done. He would have no idea that one might be more significant then the other and required a different reaction.

OP posts:
napody · 04/09/2025 11:39

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2025 03:10

Retired secondary HoD here. If the meltdown only consisted of shouting and telling someone that they're mean/bad etc, then I'd say that stopping the child's playtime is inappropriate under the circumstances. (If things had become physical, then my opinion would be different.)

Someone suggested teaching the lad to say 'Okay' and smile. Honestly, that type of masking is not the best thing IMO. I'm saying that as someone who had 40 yrs experience of working with neurodivergent children, some of whom had been taught to do this by their parents. It just finished up looking unnatural - more of a grimace than a smile.

I spent 40 yrs masking myself, to be honest. (I was diagnosed with OCD in my 30s. It wasn't until younger members of my extended family were diagnosed with autism and/or ADHD that things finally made sense.)

I recall being told that I was 'rude' for failing to make eye contact and I've faked it for most of my life. The mask slips when I'm tired.

I've had pupils telling me off for not making eye contact. I dealt with it by apologising and explaining about being on the spectrum. If children can be understanding, then so can adults.

At one point, Scottish schools had a qualification - Standard Grade English - which required pupils to deliver a talk and to make eye contact with their audience in order to get the best grades. I confessed to my pupils that I did it by fixing my eyes on a spot just above people's heads. It worked, because it was a clear strategy that didn't add more stress.

I hope I'm making sense - this is way past my bedtime, but I didn't want to leave the thread without responding.

Understood. The smile was a poor recommendation which I later retracted in response to the OP, suggesting 'saying OK with a serious face is fine too' Dont you think the 'okay' makes sense? I find sometimes children need a clear 'recipe' for a situation they find difficult. Being taught that an instruction needs to be actively accepted so that things can move on is useful. It 'completes the circle', the person giving the instruction knows that it was received and understood, and it draws a line under it.

zingally · 04/09/2025 11:23

There's a huge difference between "told off" and "asked to do it differently", but I know children with autism can struggle to tell the difference.
I'm a primary school supply teacher, and I couldn't tell you how many times over the years I've told children how to more effectively use a gluestick.

SweetnsourNZ · 04/09/2025 10:20

Kreepture · 03/09/2025 17:25

there was zero need to tell him off, or comment on it at all in that moment.

It could have waited until next time he needed to use glue, and before he did, just ask him to dab the corners so they didn't use up so much glue, so it lasted longer.

Wonder if this is not the first time she has given him this instruction but he is not comprehending it. Maybe she started this method before the holidays and he has forgotten. Does he like gluing? Could like the flow of the glue going across the paper and is being stubborn about changing. The TA shouldn't be shouting though.

TheLivelyViper · 04/09/2025 10:17

@Emmafuller79 Rather than getting angry about kids who need help and support. Be angry that the government haven't funded enough money so schools can get plenty of LSAs and teachers with more training in SEN. Be angry that there aren't enough SEN schools where kids can get the facilities they need (if they need more support and help which they cannot get in mainstream) and then your kids could be in mainstream where they can get more attention. Be angry that there aren't enough teachers and staff to give all the kids, including yours, lots of attention and support. Don't be angry at the fact that due to some of the reasons I mention, the schools have no option but to try and support those kids (without all the things they need), so they take up all their time, and they can't also give some of attention to your kids. Don't be angry at kids who need support and aren't at fault for your kids not getting support or attention. They can't help it and they need help and support, so that they can accommodate him.

Septemberisthenewyear · 04/09/2025 10:07

Emmafuller79 · 04/09/2025 05:17

you don’t listen and make zero sense
its schools job to treat all Kids the same.. my kids are fuming it don’t happen ! It’s now my job to teach my kids to not allow any naughty kids to get away with it. Last year one feral boy threw 3 tables over. He wasnt told to Leave classroom but the other 29 pupils was.😡 My son refused too leave over rough behaviour he didnt cause. teacher couldn’t make him. But They called me for a meeting ..the letter said cause my son didn’t leave classroom it “triggered” that boy to have more “meltdowns” and which caused “further disruption to learning” They literally blame shifted…you can’t make it up. I didn’t attend the bloody meeting 😡

Edited

Children should be treated equitably not equally. Just as you wouldn’t expect a child who is a wheelchair user to participate in PE or go to an upstairs science lab if there was no lift you shouldn’t expect autistic children to operate without reasonable adjustments.

SleeplessinNWLondon · 04/09/2025 08:24

I have so much sympathy for the OP and her son.

It emphasises for me how much we parents of ND kids accommodate and anticipate for them. Sadly, our experience is that even the “best” 1-to-1s don’t get it sufficiently. All these little incidents add up and now we’re home educating.

Sprogonthetyne · 04/09/2025 07:49

Emmafuller79 · 04/09/2025 05:17

you don’t listen and make zero sense
its schools job to treat all Kids the same.. my kids are fuming it don’t happen ! It’s now my job to teach my kids to not allow any naughty kids to get away with it. Last year one feral boy threw 3 tables over. He wasnt told to Leave classroom but the other 29 pupils was.😡 My son refused too leave over rough behaviour he didnt cause. teacher couldn’t make him. But They called me for a meeting ..the letter said cause my son didn’t leave classroom it “triggered” that boy to have more “meltdowns” and which caused “further disruption to learning” They literally blame shifted…you can’t make it up. I didn’t attend the bloody meeting 😡

Edited

So your kid was asked to do something for their safety, and chose to refused to do so, placing themselves and whichever teacher then had to stay and stop them been hurt by flying tables in danger, you think that's fine.

My kid spread glue over the back of a worksheet he was asked to stick in his book, without knowing this was not how they wanted it to be glued, and you think he should have been told of for this.

Interesting double standard you have going on there

OP posts:
Ivelostmyglasses · 04/09/2025 06:39

Emmafuller79 · 02/09/2025 19:49

What do you mean? If a kid doesn’t do what there suppose to do they should be told not to do it. There should be no special treatment. My kids are sick off seeing some kids in there school behaving so badly but getting away with it and rewarded. 😡

Do you know anything about autism? Do your children? You should be able to explain difference to your children.

People throughout life get treated differently due to their needs & circumstances. For example, you have not read this thread properly, and then complained there is into missing, you have conflated this issue with that of your children, but rather than match your rudeness people will understand you are frustrated by your children's experiences and be kinder than your responses deserve.

Emmafuller79 · 04/09/2025 05:17

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/09/2025 04:49

You've really not said anything worth listening to so please don't go on.

If your children do not understand why people with disabilities get extra help, and people without disabilities do not need extra help, then yes - it is your job to explain that, not the schools. It is the schools job to teach the pupils the curriculum, and ensure they meet the required standards.

you don’t listen and make zero sense
its schools job to treat all Kids the same.. my kids are fuming it don’t happen ! It’s now my job to teach my kids to not allow any naughty kids to get away with it. Last year one feral boy threw 3 tables over. He wasnt told to Leave classroom but the other 29 pupils was.😡 My son refused too leave over rough behaviour he didnt cause. teacher couldn’t make him. But They called me for a meeting ..the letter said cause my son didn’t leave classroom it “triggered” that boy to have more “meltdowns” and which caused “further disruption to learning” They literally blame shifted…you can’t make it up. I didn’t attend the bloody meeting 😡

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/09/2025 04:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You've really not said anything worth listening to so please don't go on.

If your children do not understand why people with disabilities get extra help, and people without disabilities do not need extra help, then yes - it is your job to explain that, not the schools. It is the schools job to teach the pupils the curriculum, and ensure they meet the required standards.

SweetnsourNZ · 04/09/2025 04:46

Sprogonthetyne · 02/09/2025 19:40

It hasn't happened yet, the incident was at the end of the day, so they plan on doing it tomorrow, which will then ruin another day and further set the year off on a bad footing. (With DS, yesterday might as well be months ago, his mind lives in the moment so to him when it happened it will come out of nowhere)

Would definitely be taking this up with teacher. A day is a long time to most young children anyway. He will be very anxious about tomorrow and will probably be at meltdown by breakfast. Didn't realize it was his T A as your 1st post made it sound like his new teacher.

tripleginandtonic · 04/09/2025 04:34

thebabayaga · 03/09/2025 23:15

I am so angry and sad for your son and for you. What a terribly unkind and stupid thing for his 1:1 to have done. Hugs to you both.

Its not unkind. Maybe not the best way to handle things. But children, autistic or not, need to accept that teachers are different, that things change, that something can be right at one moment, but wrong at another. And OPs job is to explain that to her dc.

SweetnsourNZ · 04/09/2025 04:26

lazyarse123 · 02/09/2025 17:40

Probably missing the point but why the hell does it matter how you glue something? Unless it was a school glue stick which is unlikely.
Your poor son teacher sounds a bit of a tyrant for no reason.

Probably because when they put too much glue on everyone's work gets stuck together. They are probably now at the age where handing in work for marking applies.

Emmafuller79 · 04/09/2025 03:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/09/2025 03:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

So all children with a disability should be homeschooled?

Because kids with a disability will often need extra support in some way - but by your reckoning, they're just being naughty when they can't regulate themselves, can't process information, can't walk, can't see or hear... they should just get on with it or stay at home.

Perhaps you can explain to your children that they don't get extra special attention because they don't need it -in the same way that they aren't given wheelchairs, or hearing aids, or a white cane... because they don't need them.

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2025 03:10

Retired secondary HoD here. If the meltdown only consisted of shouting and telling someone that they're mean/bad etc, then I'd say that stopping the child's playtime is inappropriate under the circumstances. (If things had become physical, then my opinion would be different.)

Someone suggested teaching the lad to say 'Okay' and smile. Honestly, that type of masking is not the best thing IMO. I'm saying that as someone who had 40 yrs experience of working with neurodivergent children, some of whom had been taught to do this by their parents. It just finished up looking unnatural - more of a grimace than a smile.

I spent 40 yrs masking myself, to be honest. (I was diagnosed with OCD in my 30s. It wasn't until younger members of my extended family were diagnosed with autism and/or ADHD that things finally made sense.)

I recall being told that I was 'rude' for failing to make eye contact and I've faked it for most of my life. The mask slips when I'm tired.

I've had pupils telling me off for not making eye contact. I dealt with it by apologising and explaining about being on the spectrum. If children can be understanding, then so can adults.

At one point, Scottish schools had a qualification - Standard Grade English - which required pupils to deliver a talk and to make eye contact with their audience in order to get the best grades. I confessed to my pupils that I did it by fixing my eyes on a spot just above people's heads. It worked, because it was a clear strategy that didn't add more stress.

I hope I'm making sense - this is way past my bedtime, but I didn't want to leave the thread without responding.

SweetnsourNZ · 04/09/2025 02:43

Mum of an autistic child here. When you can see he is receptive to talking about it, explain that the teacher was not telling him off, emphasize that he wasn't in trouble,. Then explain how as you get older you learn to do things differently (explain reasons). Make him feel really positive about getting older. Don't take against the teacher please or he will pick up on your feelings. Remember autism is difficult to deal with as every autistic child is different. Mine is nearly 20 now and when 1st diagnosed the outlook wasn't good but he is the most amazing young man now. Good luck.

Emmafuller79 · 04/09/2025 02:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

thebabayaga · 03/09/2025 23:15

Sprogonthetyne · 02/09/2025 23:00

But now it is about the glue sticks for DS. It didn't need to be but because the blow up today was around the glue, his anxiety is really fixated on it. The way his mind works is there is always a right way to do things so now if he keeps gluing the way he always has, then he's wrong and will be in trouble but if he changes, then that means he was doing it wrong up to this point. He just can't compute how the right thing has suddenly become the wrong thing, and it's coursing him way more distress then the price of a few glue sticks really warrants.

I am so angry and sad for your son and for you. What a terribly unkind and stupid thing for his 1:1 to have done. Hugs to you both.

Sprogonthetyne · 03/09/2025 22:55

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 03/09/2025 19:33

Fingers crossed he had a good day, and hopefully they took what you said on board and he didn’t miss playtime. Going by everything you’ve said on the thread, I think this year you’ll really have to be on them and ensure they start the year with a full reminder of his needs, his provision , how to behaviour manage him and what is expected of them. Preferably all documented in writing.

He did miss playtime (as they had already said he would), but that doesn't really feel like the most important battle. Having a meltdown is infinitely more distressing to him then missing playtime, so to me the more important thing is trying to reduce risk of future meltdowns (we all know punishing him will have zero effect on that). If they feel they need to get their revenge before they are able to discuss how to avoid meltdowns, then that unfortunately it is what it is. Focusing on the play time, would detract from me trying to explain what triggered it.

I think I got them to understand that telling him off when when he wasn't intentionally doing anything wrong felt unfair to him, so hopefully they will keep that in mind

OP posts:
WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 03/09/2025 19:33

Sprogonthetyne · 03/09/2025 18:42

I had a phone call with his SENCo who is lovely but unfortunately doesn't see him that often (not a criticism, she does a lot in the background, but doesn't necessarily see the day to day). We talked about how high his anxiety is, that isn't really new info, it's been going on years but has peaked over the last 3/4 months and maybe wasn't really being considered because it because almost background noise. Did get the impression she was on a fob of, downplay and reassure mission, but can't really blame her for that, she has an obligation to suport her colleagues.

Haven't been able to talk to DS about his day yet. With school transport he doesn't get in until after 4, then is close to non verbal for the first hour or so while he decompress. He's not usualy capable of any conversation until after half five, by which time we're on to tea, homework and cello practice etc, which I don't want to derail by bringing up difficult topics. Just before bed usualy works well for bigger conversations so I'll try then, but he hasn't cried tonight and has only washed his hands 3 time, which is a good sign.

Fingers crossed he had a good day, and hopefully they took what you said on board and he didn’t miss playtime. Going by everything you’ve said on the thread, I think this year you’ll really have to be on them and ensure they start the year with a full reminder of his needs, his provision , how to behaviour manage him and what is expected of them. Preferably all documented in writing.

Frostynoman · 03/09/2025 18:54

Sprogonthetyne · 02/09/2025 22:42

Would I be "that parent" if I send him in with 24 glue sticks tomorrow and a note asking that he be allowed to use as much as he needs to be able to complete his work and explaining he already had enough barriers to learning without rationing of stationary being another obstacle.

Don’t do this. It’s petty.

You need to tackle the situation in the morning with the 1:1 and school. If the situation is as you described then the 1:1 is at fault and your son shouldn’t be handled so heavily. You also need to set your boundaries early on in the term.

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