Teachers: do you find it hard? (high school toilets)

Should new schools be built with an en suite toilet in every classroom? I know it’s expensive but would it be better than the alternative?
also… why IS behaviour so poor? I don’t remember any of this! (I’m 35)

You say adults can go whenever they want to, but believe me teachers can’t 😂. I once chugged 1.2 litres then taught a double lesson - I’ve never come so close to peeing my pants as an adult in my life!

The tricky thing about toilet breaks and teenagers is that they can easily be gone for 15 or 20 minutes of a 50 minute lesson. They’ve then missed too much to easily pick up where we left off. Also I know of a couple of cases just in one school in the last academic year where students have gone to the toilet to self harm and two went to end their lives. So when we won’t let them go to the toilet, there really are good reasons. We’re keeping them safe and we’re keeping them learning.

Despite this, of course there are times when I let them go, especially if someone tells me they have their period. But the whole time they’re gone I’m watching the clock because after ten mins I need to get another adult to check on them. This pulls that adult from whatever they’re doing. I simply couldn’t let all 32 of them wander off to the toilet when they fancy it and run a good lesson, it’s just not feasible.

Lastly, part of school is learning skills for adulthood where you actually do have to think about your fluid intake and when you can go. There are so many examples of jobs where you can’t abruptly leave to pee and lots of examples outside of work as well. It takes very little thought, but it does take a moment of thought. That’s all we’re asking really. Think before you drink.

My DD started high school a couple weeks ago and only once been told no to the toilet during class. She does go break and lunch however the queue for lunch are shocking it’s like a compromise toilet or lunch lol! I’ll be totally honest my daughter does use the toilet ALOT at home everyone picks up she always needs a pee. She also has IBS but it doesn’t have an option to add this onto her medical records for school. It isn’t too much of an issues but if she has a flare up then it’s game over. She went to the loo last week and there were S4’s in there fighting over the last blue raspberry vape she said. She just washed her hands and left them to it. I would be super super annoyed though if she was really needing and was refused. I know kids take the piss and arse around and if I found out my DD was one I’d deal with it but I know she’s not she hates being in trouble or anything and is a rule follower. X

Good job you’re an ex teacher. Ridiculous.

And how do upwards of 1000 kids in secondary all manage to go to the toilet in the 15 min break or 30 min lunch break? Its just not possible with the amount of toilets schools tend to have.

It is causing a massive amount of school refusal and eating and drinking issues for a hell of a lot of children.

If my kid was attacked in the toilets at any time of day, it wouldn’t be my kid’s fault, would it? So I would say that, and sort out your bullies. Don’t victim blame. Don’t treat kids as one homogenous group - maybe if schools focussed on individuals (bullies, kids who need to loo etc) and their needs, including the need for independence then there would be fewer issues. If you can’t even trust that the environment you’re providing is safe for a child to go to the loo by themselves, there are some massive problems.

So what do you want teachers to do when there are 2,000 students in the building? Just let everyone go when they want?

I was the child who did pee themselves. Teacher in y3 refused to let me leave even when I said if you don;t let me go I will have to pee myself, and she said go on then…. So I did.

Remarkably I had a lot of kudos and compassion from the kids in the class… and the teacher was reprimanded. Not sure that would happen now.

Unless you have a medical condition, by secondary school age children can use the facilities when they have a break, it’s a maximum of 2 - 2.5 hours or so between times they can use them. Those of us who work in shops etc go on our break not whenever we want, it’s no different. Obviously if there’s a medical reason that’s different but by 11 most dc have good control

It's astonishing how many kids can't wait 2 hours max between breaks, yet can go to a football match or spend hours wandering with their mates without suddenly needing a wee.

It's also interesting how many kids have toilet passes and rarely use them, compared to the ones who go every lesson.

I honestly don't think parents have a clue how disruptive it is. And it's so rarely the good kids who are desperate. The good kids tend to be the ones who use the toilets at break time, rather than making the choice not to. And as pp have said, it's also interesting hours toilet use often corresponds togetting your pen out and starting work.

It would actually be quite interesting to see how frequent toilet use during lessons correlates to gcse results. In a big school, that's a nice 10 minutes of a lesson you can skive for.

As a hypnotherapist working mostly with school based anxiety/phobia/refusal this is in the top 4 triggers. It's horrible you don't need to ask to use the toilet even in prison it's awful and I makes me wildly angry actually. I can do weeks of work get a child back in school only for a teacher to do this and put as at square one. I understand there needs to be a solution but this isn't it. It's an infringement on a basic right.

But surely they could do all of those things and more during a break time visit to the loo? I would hope they are not supervised when in the cubicle!

I understand there needs to be rules, however I told my secondary aged child if they are completely desperate and the teacher says no, then just go.

But you are working and being paid to be in the classroom - the kids are not! And to be fair, if you actually had an emergency situation and needed to go to the loo immediately, then you must go.

It’s a really difficult one. I can imagine teachers are driven demented by pests and time wasters asking to go at all times of the day, disrupting lessons and going off to cause trouble and skive/vape. So I do have sympathy for teachers.
But it’s difficult to have any kind of blanket rule of no toilet use during lessons because of course there will be specific health needs, SEN, girls on their periods, unpredictable sore tummies and people who genuinely need to go. It’s not healthy to hold in the toilet. And they won’t want to draw attention to people with periods or particular needs by saying yes to some and no to others.
Im sure there are also a tiny minority of teachers like the one you describe who are on a bit of a power trip.
Perhaps if there were single toilets available nearer the classrooms the kids wouldn’t have the attraction of going to the toilet block and would hopefully be away for less time.
A lot of it will come down to judgement and I’m guessing teachers will have an idea of who is genuine and who is taking the piss.
Personally when I was a teen at high school I avoided the toilets like the plague and could easily hold it the whole day. The toilets were smelly and disgusting and an absolute hive for bullying, Christ knows why anyone would want to spend any more time there than was utterly necessary.

When they've flooded the toilets.

Or as others have said, used it as an excuse to dodge around the school.

Or gone off and graffitied somewhere.

Oh, yes. And the girl that went off and self harmed instead of going to the loo. And I was held responsible for her leaving the classroom, when in fact, she walked out.

As the teacher, you're held responsible (more or less) for these students, because you know, no toilet in lesson time.

And again, as others have said, teachers absolutely don't get to go to the loo when they need to. Not even if they suddenly become unwell. I've vommed in a bin just outside my classroom door, because I couldn't get someone to watch my class quickly enough while I went to the loo to be sick.

UK secondary school is extreme.

For those who complain that their child isn't being allowed to go to the toilet, how would you feel if you recieved a phone call to say that your child had been attacked and seriously injured while unsupervised in the toilets? Or that they'd self-harmed and had to be taken to hospital? I'd be you'd be the first to blame the school for leaving your child unsupervised.

This is why schools have policies about not letting pupils out of lessons. It's nothing to do with not wanting them to miss 5 minutes of biology, it's because stuff like the above happens when kids are left around the site by themselves. When I was a teacher, there were suicide attempts, a stabbing, very regular drug use etc.

For those who say you tell your child just walk out - by all means do that. If you've told your child to defy school policies, you won't be able to blame the school when something does happen to them.

I'll counter the above by saying that schools do have medical passes etc. so posters above saying I have chrons/bladder issues etc. would still be able to go when they want.

If my kids need to go to the toilet they go plain and simple , as long as they are straight back to class in a timely manner if teachers have an issue they can call me . Going to the toilet is a basic human right

At my present school, I will let pupils go when they ask with a reminder that they need to go at break, lunch or on the way to lessons (they get a chance to go every 50 mins). I usually ask if they can wait. If they say no, I let them go. In my previous school, there were constant requests and it was really stressful. Pupils were vaping, bullying and even having sex in toilets. Staff were told off for letting them go. Many pupils would walk out anyway.
It is true that teachers can’t go often for up to four hours if you’re on break duty. I was reprimanded for leaving a class when 8 months pregnant-they were year 12.

Ok, so I am a teacher and yes it is hard. These are often rules dictated from above that we then have to follow, usually for the reasons outlined above.

As a more senior member of staff/someone who has worked in the same secondary school for a long time I often use my discretion from knowing the child and seeing how desperate they are. Less experienced staff may be less likely as they fear going against the school rules.

I also find it interesting as you point out that adults can toilet whenever they need - This definitely isn't the case for teachers.

Secondary Teacher here. The OP doesn't say how old her DD is ...

If Y7, I'd have let her go and on-called it at the same time so people (i.e. pastoral) knew where she was. I can control a classroom, even of completely new kids, and I work in a really tricky environment. Your DD's relationship with that teacher will need to be rebuilt. That's on the teacher.

If older than Y7 and on a managed move or something, I would've on-called it. If no one came in 2-3 minutes, I'd have let her go.

Re: the overall toilet phenomenon, and everyone agrees it's got worse (the number of kids needing to go), couple of points:

1. Water bottles. Jesus. The average kid is drinking double what they need and putting a huge strain on their kidneys. This needs sorting out because it has health implications.
2. Refusal is about safeguarding.
3. Going to the toilet isn't a human right. Human Rights are outlined in the UDHR.

As a teacher who bled through to my dress during a lesson (and had a student very discretely tell me!) I feel your and your daughter's pain/anxiety.

I always weigh up what I know about the student. If no toilet pass exists: how regularly do they ask to use the toilet in my lessons? Do they look desperate? 9/10 I always let them go despite being in a school that has a zero tolerance approach to going to the toilet during lesson time.
I tend to ask them if they can wait and ask again in 5/10 minutes and if they are still needing to go, then I let them. Often the ones who don't need the toilet forget to ask again. If they're hopping up and down or wiggling, I send them straight out.

I would rather get a shitty email about the FREQUENCY OF STUDENTS GOING TO TOILETS IN MY LESSONS then for a student to have an accident in my class.

I'm a secondary school teacher and in my school we have this same policy. I broke the rules and let a student go one day last year. Guess who got told off.
Teachers don't take any pleasure in it (we all know the pain of a full bladder as we REALLY aren't allowed to go when we need to), management make the rules.

It's a complete nightmare to be honest and there are no right answers.

There is a VAST amount of lost learning in my school due to studens leaving lessons to go to the toilet. A significant number of students ask to go every single lesson without fail. Depending where their classroom is, this can mean they are missing ten minutes of five lessons a day. Fifty minutes lost learning each day for these kids.

Plus the high number of kids at large, unsupervised in the corridors leads to all sorts of problems as you can imagine.

The constant ingress and egress of kids in lessons obviously disrupts the flow to some extent also - not the end of the world, but it is annoying to a degree.

HOWEVER, for the reasons you state - stomach upsets, periods etc, it is not humane to flatly ban toilet visits.

Generally we try to "use our judgement". I err on the side of letting people go, because I obviously I would hate for a student to wet themselves in class, have a leak or similar.

Other more hardkine colleagues generally say no.

I am sure we all get it wrong sometimes. I genuinely don't know the answer. I think so much of it is down to phone addiction - I think students are desperate to check their phones, and that's why they ask to go all the time. And a lot of them also are just bored and fancy a walk, want to see who else is out of lessons and on the corridor etc. It's an epidemic!

Anyway, to solve the immediate problem, send your child in tomorrow with a handwritten note by yourself, either ring her planner or on a piece of paper, saying that while you are awaiting a toilet pass she needs to ve allowed to go as there is a genuine medical need. I don't know any teachers that would ignore a note from a parent like this.

SEN or no SEN, as adults we would not tolerate being told we couldn’t go to the toilet. My children have my full permission to drop their trousers and urinate on the floor if they are told no when they ask to go to the toilet. Oh, and I’m an ex teacher.