Children’s spaces

I visited popular retail place today with my 10yo DS who’s severely autistic and wears nappies day/night.

There are several cubicles in make/female toilets and only 1 disabled toilet.
The queue was not long but disabled people take a bit longer.
There were 3 people with walking sticks/crutches before us and lady on wheelchair waiting after us.

Sometimes there’s no disabled toilets available. DS needs assistance so when I have to I take him to ladies and we go into one cubicle.
I’m not comfortable with that as he’s growing older but the alternative is me going with him to gents (which will probably happen)

I wish there were more disabled toilets available and they wouldn’t be abused by people who don’t need them.

Line two
it is safe

line four

it is not safe.

So I can’t follow what you mean.

but yes I think there should be a closed space for adult and child.

I think it's safe for girls to go into the men's with their dads but I don't think it's equally safe for young boys to go into the men's on their own. On the other hand I do think it would be safe for young boys (i.e maybe between 8-12) to go into the women's alone. But I can understand if women or girls won't like that and I wouldnt want groups of almost adolescent boys in the women's while my dd is in there on her own.

Anyway my point is that basically it is men that are usually the problem and pose a threat to everyone else. I've got no idea what the solution is unfortunately.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post. I was specifically referring to toilets, when we are out without his Dad. So, my son (and everyone else) would be in their own cubicle.

For swimming pool changing rooms, I only ever use the family changing rooms, which basically consists of larger enclosed cubicles. I wouldn't take him into open plan changing rooms at this age (he's 7), especially, as you say, that girls his age would be in.

It’s not just women in a female changing room. Girls are also entitled to privacy, dignity and safety.

When DD was around 10/11 she hated boys being in the communal changing rooms at our pool. Some of them would stare - their mums wouldn’t necessarily notice as they’d be dealing with another child so no doubt they considered their sons to be fine in the women’s changing room.

No, you misunderstand me.

The problem is either caused by men (male violence) towards boys, or is a problem for men (dads with daughters).

Therefore men should sort it out.

Its not that long ago that 8yos were considered old enough to walk to school alone, go swimming or the cinema, or go to the park alone. So no parent meant need to use the right facility. With toilets... old enough to need a parent means parents right toilet is fine as long as the parent takes responsibility for their behaviour.

But open plan changing rooms... understandably the girls don't want to hang with boys, so its the boys who can't be there. Family cubicles are needed.

I will be letting my son use the women's facilities until I think he's ready to use the men's alone. If that's when he's 10 or 11 then so be it. I couldn't give a shit if that upsets you. What threat do you think a prepubescent boy will be to women?

This is the problem with Mumsnet, they see male children as ‘men’ and therefore aren’t interested in their safety.

My son is 12 there is no way he would be seen with me near the ladies now (and I wouldn’t take him anyway) but at 8 I would have. Men are dangerous to women and children, just because the child is also male does not mean that they are safe or that it isn’t a woman’s problem, because those children have mothers who love them and who would be devastated beyond belief if something were to happen to them. There absolutely should be parent and child facilities however realistically it costs too much money and there is no political will for it. We are more likely to end up with trans only facilities than we are with parent and child ones (beyond baby changing).

I used to think that until my son started growing up. He's only 7.5 and I don't want him alone in the men's.

I totally agree with this. Especially in really busy areas. I think that's something that's really changed in the last few decades is that there are many more public toilets in really busy areas. Like when I was young (30-40 years ago) I'm sure normally if you needed the toilet while you were out you went to a cafe that had 1 or 2 toilets. Now often you get a shopping centre with a huge bank of toilets, many people coming and going and often no doors on the toilet sets, just on the cubicles. It's far more difficult to know who's in there and also easier to get a child out without being seen.

I also find it strange that years ago small places would often have one or two toilets with sinks in the cubicles that served both genders and yet now if you make the toilets mixed gender to incorporate people who have adopted a different gender identity, or to make it easier for male and female to go together, people seem to think it's less safe.

@CatamaranViper I was the same when DS was younger. I would sometimes shout as he went in the door just to be extra careful, 'remember I'm right outside waiting and I'll hear you if you call for me..'

I have an 8yr old DS who uses the male toilets by himself often. I stand outside or watch the door and if he takes longer than he should I either open the door and shout it (if no one else is in there) or ask someone to go check. So far he's never needed to use a male changing room alone as our local pools have shared unisex facilities.

If we went somewhere very busy (ie an airport, train station, football ground) id make DS come to the women's with me unless DH was also around. Small pubs, restaurants, softplays, cafes etc I let DS go himself. I think that's quite standard, at least it is round here!

I don't think its a big deal for a little girl to go to the men's with her Dad. She isn't going to be standing there staring at men as they pee, she would just be walking past with her carer. Plus it's just a normal body function, most little kids have seen their Dad go, it's not something dirty or shameful. I know someone who brought his DD swimming every week and she went into the changing rooms until she was old enough to go alone to the women. She used the private cubicle but walked past men getting dressed and would have seen some exposure for sure. I don't think our bodies are something to be ashamed of, I also find it uncomfortable that people always think of everything as sexual, I sometimes wonder if it's more a reflection of them and their dirty minds.

I think young girls (under 8) with their Dad are much safer in the men’s that 8 yo boys alone!

I don’t think it’s safe after what happened to my ds when he was 8 years old. He went into a men’s public toilet to see one man giving another a blow job. They couldn’t really fit in the cubicle so they were half in half out. Ds was confused, scared and upset. He ran out and it took me ages to get him to tell me what happened. He was 16 before he went in a public toilet again!!

I would like to see more single toilets like the disabled ones.

Family, although it does include the disabled, wheelchair-accessible shower and toilet room at the end of the family room. So the only single adult you'd expect to see in there would be someone who needed the accessible room.

There are both single sex options and then the family one.

Actually, this place has two sets of single sex changing rooms - a women's swim changing room, and a women's gym changing room. Plus the same for the men.

I agree. I have an 11 yo son with ADHD, and it’s not until recently I’ve felt fully happy with him using the men’s toilet alone. Like it or not, it’s men who are a threat to others (including other men!)

I think we need a total rethink of how we approach toilets and the division of space tbh.

I prefer single cubicles for everyone straight off the main corridor, with a sink inside. And plenty of these being suitable for disabled people. I know a lot of women don’t like this because men can be disgusting and mess up those loos, but I think the answer to this is to make that socially unacceptable.

Urinals and that whole “semi private” space between the main door and the cubicles needs to go imo.

I have two daughters and DH takes them out without me frequently. Particularly over the school holidays as we don’t have enough leave to take it at the same time.

I don’t think there is anything unsafe about them using the men’s toilets as required. They go in and out, men are doing their business but discreetly (apparently).

Obviously, family facilities would be preferable but I don’t think there is a safety issue.

@wordler ’family’ or ‘unisex’?

at my leisure centre it is unisex for swimming, with no single sex options.