Is The IMF taking Over perhaps just what the country needs

people with depression etc used to get locked up in loony bins and it wasn't that long ago.

Not saying we should go back to that. It's just your expressed complete horror at the idea but it really wasn't that long ago they did this.

Like 100 years ago they did it. So my granny's time.

read my post about my own mental health struggles. I am not trying to upset you. I know what it is like.

All I am asking is if there was no welfare state we would all have to adapt and survive.

I mean we did it for hundreds of years before the welfare state.

So I was just asking if there was a mid point we could return to between then ie nothing and now ie unaffordable.

I mean we have a huge debt to repay so we really can't afford the current welfare state can we.

If I had no job/food/house I sure as hell would go to a get back on your feet hotel rather than sleep on the street.

Okay just forget I said anything. How will the govt cut the benefit bill if nobody is prepared to do without.

that might actually answer an earlier question ie what people did before the welfare state - they comitted a crime to go to jail for a bed and food.

Not saying you should do that obviously! Just thinking about history.

Okay so I have quite severe complex trauma in my background from a violent, unstable, scary childhood. As a result I have depression/anxiety and very maladaptive coping mechanisms. However I always worked even though it affected me and I had to overcompensate etc. I've never tried to kill myself but have thought about it to end my internal distress. I have eating disorder, OCD, some very strange habbits but I still worked full time for 35 years.

I mean if it's that or starve then you just find a way to make it work.

I'm not unsympathetic. I am getting phychotherapy on the NHS (which as you know is very difficult to get) because my illness is severe enough. I don't claim any benefits though as I am living on savings just now. If I had no savings and there was no welfare state you can bet your bottom dollar I would be hunting for a job and if I have to do weird addictive behaviours every night after work to deal with the stress then that's what I would do (probably is what i did)

If you think of the NHS being privatized which we all know is happening gradually then we do actually go back to how it used to be pre NHS ie if you can afford a doctor you go. If you can't afford the private fees then what? You don't go and suffer and die.

I mean we are moving back to that aren't we for the NHS.

So I suppose I was trying to apply this to the welfare state?

The upgraded workhouse (so say an unemployed basic hostel or something) would be for the unemployed or say people with depression where they can get jobs and get back to work.

For people in wheelchairs/downs syndrome there would have to be something else - residential hospitals where they could be looked after more cheaply than the current sick benefits?

Okay I am being daft but what did a disabled person do when there was no benefit state because it is quite a recent thing.

What? Are you saying just no to any revised, reduced benefit system?

We can't afford the one we have plus we have to repay all this huge debt.

So what we can afford sounds like it will be quite basic.

I was just trying to think how do you stop people being homeless/starving but keep the bill as low as possible and also do the bare minimum so they are very motivated to get back on their feet.

I bet a heck of alot more people would be back in work in a jiffy. It would help growth too.

Yes I know this is controversial - but the welfare state is actually a very recent thing and it clearly cannot continue the way it is.

Anyway the point I am trying to make is we are all quite soft and spoiled nowadays. So when I was a kid there was no central heating and houses were freezing with single glazing and ice on the windows.

Now we think that would be inhumane to go back to that and yet that is how millions of britons lived in the seventies and yes we were cold but we didn't die we just got used to it.

I mean if we can't afford the current welfare state we have to cut quite alot of it or go to a completely different system.

If you couldn't afford a house with central heating then yes you would live in one without central heating and adapt. Not ideal but if that was all you could afford.

Hopefully you all know what I am trying to say re rewinding the benefit system back to something we can afford and dig our selves out of the debt hole/repay the debt.

I can google this but I just thought I'd ask here since we are talking about benefits getting cut.

There was a time in Britain where there was no NHS. Before NHS if you could afford a doctor you got one out and paid and if not then I guess you got sicker till you recovered or died or were left impaired in some way.

I'm sure there was also a time then where there was no welfare state. So what did disabled/sick/unemployed people do then? I am guessing families took care of each other more, they lived more cramped in together. I also know there used to be a thing called 'the workhouse' which you could go to if you were poor for basic food/bed. I think people did everything they could to avoid it so it was sort of last resort (I remember this from stuff my mum said).

So we have all got used to the security of the welfare state but what happened before or have I answered it already ie family or workhouse.

I just wondered if there was anything at all that could be 'rescued' from the past to help with the ways things are now ie cut the huge benefit bill

I'm not suggesting a workhouse again as they were meant to be awful places but for people with no food/money/shelter could their be an upgraded version of the workhouse where you could go to get back on your feet? Would it be cheaper than current benefit system.

I guess I am going to get alot of flack for this but at the moment we give people benefits and they spend them on whatever they want. I guess this system meant people got basics given ie shelter, food, work to earn it but no actual money to spend. Or is the idea just too silly for words now and no updated modern version would work (just trying to think outside of the box)

What did people do with their house when they went into the workhouse or had it been repossessed by then and they were on the streets.
What happened to disabled children when their parents died and there was no welfare state. Did they go to orphanages.

Sorry turning this into a cross between a history lesson and a benefit debate.

Is there any half way point between 'how it used to be' pre benefit state and the 'over the top soft touch benefit system we have now'