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AIBU?

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Original poster

‘Lacks etiquette’ - wouldn’t say it about a man.

81 replies

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 08:11

Name change.

This phrase: ‘She lacks etiquette. She should not have done that to me.’ Said by a man, about a female colleague.

Would you find it sexist or think it had vaguely sexist connotations? Context is that a female colleague had to duck out of a 1-2-1 with a male colleague to take an emergency call. She said she’d be right back (both accept this) and then dialled off the call. She called him back two minutes later. I know it was an emergency. I manage both colleagues.

But, here is my AIBU. AIBU to think that a man would never say that phrase (that someone lacks etiquette) about a male member of staff? I would never say it about anyone, but I do for some reason find it particular offensive to be said about a woman. It reminds me slightly of ‘that woman was so rude. How dare she keep me, a man, waiting.’ Perhaps it was the delivery of the line, but it just feels off.

I’m very happy to be told IABU, but equally if people do see where I am coming from I’d welcome thoughts on how to raise this today in my next catchup with said person.

OP posts:
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Fluffyblackcat7 · 03/09/2025 11:34

I am not sure that ‘she lacks etiquette,’ is sexist. ‘He lacks etiquette,’ can also be said and I think it sounds equally antiquated and inappropriate in a modern work setting.

However, what strikes me is that the phrases, 'It was inappropriate' and 'It was rude' are criticisms of the behavior, whereas, 'She lacks etiquette is a criticism of the person.

Do you think that the personal nature of the criticism might have been what you were unconsciously reacting to?
In any case, your instincts were right. It is off.

I also think that the criticism was unwarranted as it was an emergency which she dealt with quickly.

As for how to deal with this,
as others have suggested, say that you are interested in his comment and ask him to roleplay how he would have handled a similar situation better.

Also, point out to him that constructive criticism should focus on the behavior rather than the person. You can give him examples such as ‘It was inappropriate’ and ‘It was rude’ and ask him how they are different to ‘S/He lacks etiquette,’ but be prepared to point it out to him if he doesn't see it.

Good call, OP. Go educate!

Fluffyblackcat7 · 03/09/2025 11:28

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 08:34

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

It’s the particular phrase I found to be slightly sexist or ‘off.’ If he had said it in any other way I wouldn’t have been quite so startled.

‘It was inappropriate’ or ‘it was rude’ would have been fine. But ‘she lacks etiquette’ just felt wrong.

Show quote history

I am not sure that ‘she lacks etiquette,’ is sexist. ‘He lacks etiquette,’ can also be said and I think it sounds equally antiquated and inappropriate in a modern work setting.

However, what strikes me is that the phrases, ‘It was inappropriate’ and ‘It was rude’ comment on and criticise the behavior whereas, ‘She lacks etiquette’ is a criticism of the person.

Do you think that the personal nature of the criticism might have been what you were unconsciously reacting to?
In any case, your instincts were right. It is off.

I also think that the criticism was unwarranted as it was an emergency which she delt with quickly.

So, as others have suggested, say that you are interested in his comment and ask him to roleplay how he would have handled a similar situation better.

Also, point out to him that constructive criticism should focus on the behavior rather than the person. You can give him examples such as ‘It was inappropriate’ and ‘It was rude’ and ask him how they are different to ‘S/He lacks etiquette,’ but be prepared to point it out to him if he doesn't see it.

Good call, OP. Go educate!

SheSaidHummingbird · 02/09/2025 01:34

@Lackingetiquette Ahh, be careful about sharing these details online... You have a confidentiality obligation to both staff members and these details are quite specific (and easily searchable)

Miaminmoo · 02/09/2025 01:08

Regardless of his poor choice of language, has he no empathy? I would be admonishing him for making a mountain out of a molehill and telling him to grow up. This should never have been brought to your attention in the first place - is he 12 years old? Someone making you wait 2 minutes would not even warrant any kind of investigation from me - at all. Speaking as an employer. If any of my team spoke to me about something like this I would assume they had too much time on their hands.

Laura95167 · 01/09/2025 23:24

Tbh male colleague sounds more about his entitlement, though yes likely sexist. Big manly man should have nice office girls full attention.

She didnt do it to him, she prioritised a personal urgent matter over a work matter. He was irrelevant. Someone should tell him that.

TheArtfulNavyDreamer · 01/09/2025 23:12

I’d say it about either sex but I think he sounds an absolute drama queen. She had an emergency call and called him back two mins later - why is it even worth talking about?!

InterIgnis · 01/09/2025 21:05

I’ve heard men criticize male colleagues for having ‘terrible etiquette’ before for similar. I’ve also heard ‘he should not have done that to me’.

So no, I wouldn’t assume this was sexist.

Bowies · 01/09/2025 21:01

He was wrong and would have challenged him, but don’t have an issue with his wording and on the surface wouldn’t see it as gender specific.

Pollyanna87 · 01/09/2025 20:28

I’ve described men as lacking etiquette. It’s a polite way to describe them as slobs!

weaselyeyes · 01/09/2025 20:02

Whilst I'm also irritated by the 'lacks etiquette' phrase (as I think it should be that she showed poor etiquette), it's the 'She should not have done that to me' that I think carries the sexist undertone. It suggests feeling personally affronted, rather than that someone has behaved rudely ,and the 'to me' implies he feels he in particular deserves better treatment. Either this is because of his individual godlike qualities or because he thinks he should be treated better as he is a man.

cchs1 · 01/09/2025 19:51

I think maybe what has annoyed you is your colleague described ‘her’ (she lacks etiquette) rather than her behaviour ‘it was unprofessional’ (I don’t believe it was by the way). So it felt more personal between the colleagues than it should have done. Hopefully I’ve made some sense there!

AgnesX · 01/09/2025 18:32

The person who said it sounds really prissy. Someone who's a bit po faced generally, you get them in both sexes but more men in my experience.

The number of of times it's happened to me as an EA I've lost count of. These things happen.

Spinmerightroundbaby · 01/09/2025 18:25

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 08:11

Name change.

This phrase: ‘She lacks etiquette. She should not have done that to me.’ Said by a man, about a female colleague.

Would you find it sexist or think it had vaguely sexist connotations? Context is that a female colleague had to duck out of a 1-2-1 with a male colleague to take an emergency call. She said she’d be right back (both accept this) and then dialled off the call. She called him back two minutes later. I know it was an emergency. I manage both colleagues.

But, here is my AIBU. AIBU to think that a man would never say that phrase (that someone lacks etiquette) about a male member of staff? I would never say it about anyone, but I do for some reason find it particular offensive to be said about a woman. It reminds me slightly of ‘that woman was so rude. How dare she keep me, a man, waiting.’ Perhaps it was the delivery of the line, but it just feels off.

I’m very happy to be told IABU, but equally if people do see where I am coming from I’d welcome thoughts on how to raise this today in my next catchup with said person.

No not sexist - just about manners?

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 01/09/2025 18:02

Well, I don’t know if a man would say it about a man or not.

But it sounds like he was being ridiculous and making a meal out of a non-issue.

mummyhat · 01/09/2025 17:59

Yes, it’s condescending. He has a mild but noticeable superiority complex.
Impossible to comment on whether he applies it to all genders or not; one to watch though.

ScrollingLeaves · 01/09/2025 14:05

Do you know what he believes she should have done?

rwalker · 01/09/2025 13:56

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 13:34

@gannett thanks, I have been keep an eye on morale which is mostly fine although it’s noticeable no one greets him in the office and he very often sits in a completely different room to the entire department!

I have also gently raised that his tone and choice of words has offended others. Of course, he’s adamant it’s all a mistake and he’s never meant to upset anyone.

So he’s socially awkward doesn’t interact well with people, isolates himself ,has no empathy ,understanding or emotional insight with his communication skills
to me you’ve described someone on the spectrum rather than sexist

PosiePetal · 01/09/2025 13:53

'She should not have done that to me.’

That would bother me more. Egotistical.

MasterBeth · 01/09/2025 13:48

I don’t think etiquette is a gendered concept.

MageQueen · 01/09/2025 13:43

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 13:34

@gannett thanks, I have been keep an eye on morale which is mostly fine although it’s noticeable no one greets him in the office and he very often sits in a completely different room to the entire department!

I have also gently raised that his tone and choice of words has offended others. Of course, he’s adamant it’s all a mistake and he’s never meant to upset anyone.

Aaaah, the classic victim response (also common in children), "I didn't mean to upset/hurt anyone and now Im' the baddy and everyone is mean to me."

I have zero sympathy. The response to that is, "I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose. but the effect was the same. what can you do to modify your behaviour in the future."

Just like I tell my children when they're making these sorts of complaints - if I accidentally hit someone in my car, of course I didn't do it on purpose. But I made a mistake and I have to accept responsibility for it.

Original poster
Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 13:34

@gannett thanks, I have been keep an eye on morale which is mostly fine although it’s noticeable no one greets him in the office and he very often sits in a completely different room to the entire department!

I have also gently raised that his tone and choice of words has offended others. Of course, he’s adamant it’s all a mistake and he’s never meant to upset anyone.

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 01/09/2025 12:58

A man would as noted be described in blunt terms.

CreationNat1on · 01/09/2025 12:51

Direct him to your company grievance procedure, which I m sure will request specifics of any complaint, not subjective etiquette barometers.

gannett · 01/09/2025 11:00

Lackingetiquette · 01/09/2025 10:27

Thanks all. I’d be interested to know what the people who voted YANBU think, as a lot of posters seem to think it wasn’t sexist (or implied sexism).

For background, there is a history of this colleague making comments that come slightly close to being sexist, or making requests that he wouldn’t ask of a man, but nothing you could actually pin down as being sexist! It’s a tricky one to manage.

I suspected this might be the case. And I suspect he knows exactly where the line is between something he can be pinned down for, and sly insinuations with plausible deniability.

These guys always slip up in the end though. Keep an eye out for anything that has demonstrable practical impact on work flow or team morale.

PermanentTemporary · 01/09/2025 10:39

You can’t alter the way people think; you can only manage the impact. I’m sure you’re right that he’s viewing this through a sexist lens. Bouncing it back to him to understand how he thinks he would have managed it would help tbh to understand his thought processes so you can manage the likely outcomes. I suppose it might make him reflect… not very likely.