To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers

I mean, this is an obvious point right?

I elect a government to oversee and agree negotiations.

the financial decision making is based on extensive modelling none of us have access to and it’s up to their employers to work out what’s affordable and negotiate.

personally, if the country was wealthier than it currently is I couldn’t care less about paying for key workers salary increases.

Agree with PP that the bus drivers deserve the pay rise! What a job

There are driverless taxis operating in the US.

I'm a bit confused because you quoted my response to the suggestion that most people can negotiate their salaries individually; but I think we're essentially on the same page!

I don't trust driverless trains. Why haven't we got driverless cars yet? - because every time they trial one, it has an accident within hours! Driving a vehicle needs a human eye. I was reading about a serious rail accident being averted because a driver spotted that the points were set incorrectly - not part of his remit to look at the points, but a case of experience telling him something wasn't right. If he'd just let the train run on it would have gone into the side of another train.

Equal to who the private sector?
If we agree that they should be paid the equivalent of the same role in the private sector then they should be given the same benefits too - 20 days holiday a year, ssp and smp only and a 3% employer contribution to their DC pension.
If the private sector SME's could dip into the tax pot everytime they run short of cash too then we'd all be on DB pensions with 25% employer contributions.

They have far less than they used to.

Lots of people on hearing there’s a strike will simply work from home.

The people who will suffer most are the low paid and other key workers who can’t work from home. Well done RMT. You get to screw over lots of other union members.

This is true and is also why I don’t understand why we just don’t think good for them. They are in the last thrones of this being a job. Why not go for it before you’re automated out? Gives a generation a better life before it happens.

Yeah, my nephew is a train driver. He drives a train.

You pay them, if you’re a British tax payer.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

I was purely addressing the strange suggestion that most people can negotiate their salaries on an individual basis.

I never really get why people don’t think “good for them” don’t you want to earn as much money as you possibly can? The maximum return for your labour?

whether it’s financially reasonable is their employers problem, not yours.

You think the drivers still drive the trains?

Some pretty loaded adjectives in your title there OP. And no IABU/IANBU buttons. Looks like you've made your mind up. Your position and prejudices are clear.

I no wouldn’t fancy being on a train with a tired drive though. Maybe they have a point.

Train packed full of people. One slip up through fatigue and where are you?

Pilots work less than that and they are also navigating big vehicles full of people.

And again: yes it is most that can negotiate their pay: the public sector in the uk makes up roughly 1/5 to 1/4 of employees. So yes, most can negotiate individually.

The technology is in all of the newer trains, to be driverless. The only reason they still have drivers at all, is union power. Sooner they go the better. They’ve been taking the piss out of London commuters, and British tax payers, for too long. Their conditions and pay are incomparable (as in far far better) than most people.

They want a reduction from the 35 hour week to support fatigue management. Who else has a 35 hour week?
We should have upgraded to automated trains years ago but of course we can’t afford that either so we will cave to the ‘drivers’ again

I know they can’t negotiate individually. I’ve reread my reply and can’t see where I’ve said they can? Or responded to that?

I responded to the fact that those people strike because the pay is low/ inflation rises lower than inflation (and that is related to not being able to negotiate individually but that’s the same with all jobs that are paid in bands and generally public sector roles)

A lot of those sectors are balloting or have/ are striking.

Yes, they are indeed. But they still can't individually negotiate their salaries, as PP seemed to be suggesting that most people apart from train drivers could.

It's not like a teacher or a nurse can go and butter up their boss, point out how good a worker they are and pull a few strings to bag a bigger salary just for themselves.

And where people are unable to negotiate their salary their only recourse is to industrial action. At the very least, inflation based awards would mean that firemen, nurses, doctors, bin men, and yes, train drivers, didn’t have their incomes steadily eroded annually because they have no means of negotiating any kind of performance or duty related increase to their pay.

an economy such as ours which is based on 2-3% inflation driven by fiscal policy is the steady transfer of wealth from those on fixed wages to those who own assets. It’s outrageous that nurses had a pay freeze for over 10 years. Now look- there’s a recruitment crisis in nursing…I wonder why…

They have a lot of leverage.

I don't know if this is the whole truth, partial truth or nothing but propaganda and lies; but I read that the salary for the job was set at a very attractive rate, specifically to take account of all of the antisocial working days and hours that would come as part of the territory - and then the unions started complaining because there was no double/extra pay on top of that for working antisocial shifts.

A lot of those sectors are balloting or have/ are striking.

That in itself should be telling the electorate something.

People want public services, transport, education, care, health - but no one wants to pay these people a wage that shows they are as important as other sectors. Yet 5 years ago they were keyworkers keeping the country running.

Until public sector workers are respected as equals when it comes to employments (rather than them being vocational roles which also require a degree) these strikes will continue.