To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers

Whiny motherfuckers. Get a grip, try working in McDonald's lol

Bollocks. We run railways on Victorian infrastructure, with tight clearances that make emergency evacuation difficult. If you travel on the automated Milan Metro line you'd see that continuous catwalks are provided for evacuation - no chance of doing that on legacy infrastructure in the UK, it's simply unaffordable. There will still be a human manning every London Underground train for many decades to come.

You do know these staff work underground with no air conditioning or modern air filtration? Do you know how many people throw themselves under tube trains every week? Most tube stations in central London are a long way underground- do you know how to manually winch a lift, isolate power to lines to safely evacuate people, identify from behaviours on platforms who may want to self harm? Can you do CPR, effectively use a defibrillator? All TFL staff in underground stations can do this and a lot more - the Unions are making sure tube travel is the safest it can be - and when/if there is an emergency underground I will be thankful for their expertise!

No, it is not. On the whole national rail network, the only part that is automated is between St Pancras and Elephant and Castle

Agree with all that. And to stay alert, doing all that through a 9 hour shift. It's a safety critical job.

Do you mean massive pensions, unlimited sick leave,great maternity packages are not enough (for whole public sector)? Please check average salary for a train driver in London first. I hope AI will replace them all soon.

All of that is automated. They don’t do that manually.

Do you work on the railway? Yes obviously the don’t steer the train, but it is more than just pushing buttons. There are a lot of rules to learn, stopping distances etc. Would you know when and where to slow down if you were doing 100mph in a vehicle weighing 100s of tons, metal wheels on a metal rail, to then stop in the exact correct place on a platform? And know that for a lot of different stations, in different weathers? And then the same for the 100s of signals? If they go through a signal they get taken off track and are interrogated. I’m sure you could do it, but after many many months of training like all drivers get. And a lot of people don’t have the mindset or skill set to do it. It is not just ‘pushing buttons’.

Yes, they do.

And they have all gone on strike over the years?

I reckon that drivers will continue to be in most London Underground trains for a very long time.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-report-reveals-the-cost-and-challenges-of-introducing-driverless-tube-trains-79316/

Possibly but it will come here too.

The Victoria line doesn’t need drivers - it can run without. As others have pointed out the DLR doesn’t use drivers. Best bit is driving the DLR into Bank.

"To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers..."

Why are you involving the government - they are not the employers in this dispute? The drivers are employed by TfL - and the majority of TfL's revenue comes not from the taxpayer but from fares, the congestion charge and from commercial activities such as adverts on station platforms.

Why should train drivers not use their collective bargaining power to obtain the best outcome for themselves - isn't that what the right-wing Free Market supporters advocate, or does their version of a Free Market only really mean an employment market rigged in favour of employers?

Good for them, I hope they win.

Is there a shortage? TFL is not advertising any open train driver positions.

https://london-gov.jobs2web.com/tfl/search/?createNewAlert=false&q=&optionsFacetsDD_dept=&optionsFacetsDD_shifttype=

No upcoming events for apprenticeship cohorts:

https://tfl.recsolu.com/external/events_central

Their problem might be that they are a bit coy about letting applicants know how to apply. I think a lot of people would jump at the chance. Or maybe it’s one of those jobs you can only get if you have a dad of uncle in the union. 🤷🏻‍♀️

If so, why haven't bus drivers been applying in their droves and why is there a shortage of train drivers?

Exactly.

I’m in the north of England. I’m just jealous you have trains.

They are a rare thing here.

Sorry, but being the highest paid in the world means that other countries don't pay more - in other words, so fucking what? It's irrelevant.

And if it's so great and easy a job, I suggest that you apply.

Why do you think there are brand new unused trains sitting around not in use because drivers won’t drive them?

Train drivers in the UK are already the HIGHEST PAID in the WORLD.

Sorry for caps, but honestly. We get all this shit, and they are just grabby lazy whatnots.

SWT couldn't put into service swanky new trains because the guards wouldn't let the drivers close the automatic doors. 10 years that's been going on. Brand new trains not used, bought, but just sitting around. Now they tell us they need to train them how to use them, so they have reduced the service in order to do that. Hey, guys, press this button ...... But carefully......No doubt they'll need more money, because it's not in their contract to press that button

Nope. I love railways. They’re brilliant, really genius pieces of engineering. Ask my wife, I can bore the socks off anyone. Railways are marvellously complex bits of mechanical, electrical and social engineering.

The PSA on a DLR train isn’t a trained customer service monkey. They have to have full route knowledge and full procedural knowledge as well as technical knowledge about how the train works to operate it in this restricted mode. There are other parts to this equation for sure- the control room staff, the technical staff, but it’s not just “durrr monkey push button make train go”.

Moving trains outside of signalled protection is a risk-ridden process where trains can (and have been!) derailed, risking lives and huge asset and infrastructure costs. This is prevented by having systems where people are trained to a high degree to reduce that risk as low as reasonably practicable. Ultimately what train staff are getting paid for is what they know, not what they do.

Yes, anyone with fingers can push a button. Anyone with a hand can move a lever. Knowing what button, at what time, in which sequence, to do things safely, is the trick. Turns out that’s not so easy, especially when you’re under pressure.

I’m not at all. I am responding to the poster who suggested that working in the private sector was 20 days annual leave and 3% pensions. Not all are like that at all

Agree they are pointless. Very much en vogue 30 years ago. I would not recommend them to high flyers in their late 20s now.

I would consider MBAs an American import that fizzled out.

Getting back to the topic if the thread, you are insinuating that you are very senior and very successful. Most workers in the private sector are not. Train drivers are hardly the pinnacle of the public sector. Surely train drivers’ terms and conditions should be compared against their private sector equivalents, rather than yourself, no?