Immigrants but legal ones?

We could go and live almost anywhere in Europe before Brexit.

Where have I said that I have an issue with this? This is my whole point shouldn’t we be able to have a discussion without immediately being labelled racist?

I'm still hopeful that it is a minority of angry people, outweighed by decent people.

So why do you have an issue with people who move here and… support themselves?

But if you look at our demographic pyramid, we can't afford to be that picky. UK birth rate is far, far below replacement. Who is going to do the scut work when there aren't enough young people to do it?

The thing with immigration is that it is complex. The people currently painting roundabouts don't understand that.

If you want to fill jobs with your own people (and we do), then a lot of change needs to happen - and all of it will be expensive.

1. Reform of the UK education system so that it places equal value on vocational and skills-based education as it does on academia. We need to identify those youngsters whose aptitudes and interest aren't in Shakepeare and trigonometry but in building, carpentry, electrical engineering, cars. And we need to make them feel deeply valued for choosing that career path, and train them up well.

2. We need to make work pay. If you look back at the 1960s/70s and assess the pay multiples between a company's chief exec and their lowest paid worker, you will find those multiples much smaller than they are now. They need to be brought back down - and that means the really wealthy will need to give up having so much money that it becomes meaningless. This could be done with a mixture of carrot and stick: invest in your staff, train up school leavers, plough your huge earnings back into your (British) company - but if you offshore your wealth, expect to be hammered by tax. It has to be financially worthwhile for people to invest in their own country. I am left wing, but I have zero objection to people getting rich. What I do object to is people getting rich whilst their employees who actually do all the work end up still needing benefits in order to make ends meet. That is not acceptable.

3. Jobs like care work, harvesting, hospitality work and retail need to be paid better. How that is done is something better brains than mine will have to work on, but these are absolutely key people who keep the economy going, and we treat them like dirt.

A lot of the people on here will scream about the above, call it socialism, say it can't happen - but what's the alternative? And of course the problem is that getting all of that in place will take time, and what do we do in the interim? We used to be in the EU - people would come here, work for a while and then go back. Then we did the stupid thing that was Leave, and replaced our immigrants with those for whom the stakes are very much higher, people for whom going back was much less attractive. Look at Poland - it's about to overtake the UK as an economic power. We threw our options away.

If we were still in the EU you could’ve given it a go.

For EU/EFTA Citizens

• No Visa Needed for Entry: You can enter Switzerland without a visa for short stays.
• Job Search: You can look for a job for up to three months without a work permit.
• Residence Permit Required: For stays longer than three months, you must register with the local authorities and obtain a residence permit.

Well it sounds like you contribute a lot, thank you. However we cannot extrapolate from that fact that every immigrant contributes significantly to the country. Should we not be allowed to discuss it without being called racist?

Democracies have to allow their citizens to leave. Only autocracies restrict them from leaving. If you let your citizens leave and you are a rich country by international standards (and let us not forget we are in the top 5% worldwide amongst all human beings), then we have an obligation to take our fair share of refugees. Legal migration is a question of what our system wants to encourage and frankly, we have benefited over many centuries from the labour of persons born abroad.

Well exactly that’s my point; we want the best people in the UK.

As it happens I do!
You cannot retire to a EU country unless you have the funds to support yourself. That seems reasonable to me, what do you think?

If we find work there, it is legal for us to do so and we are the best qualified and experienced candidate for any job going - why not? I got all my jobs in the UK because I was the best. Should my employers have been forced to settle for less?

No of course not. But should we be allowed to move to any country we want to?

There are 9 billion people in the world should they all be able to choose where they live?
If so I would like to live in Switzerland which is lovely, but what if 3 billion other people also want to live there? Clearly that would not be feasible, so should we have limits on the movement of people?
That’s not a question I can answer, but is it one we can discuss without immediately being called a bigot and racist?

This is why I’m currently getting mine and ds Irish passports sorted. Ds needs a way out.

The thing is… these are not necessarily bad people. They’re pretty decent, normal people in the grand scheme of things. Some of them even consider me a friend.I get on well with all of them. They’ll cry on my shoulder when things are shit. They’ll ask me for help. Most of them acknowledge I’m brilliant at my job and how great I am. I’m just not… one of them(English), and I never will be.

@FatCyclist Migrants on average pay a lot more tax than the average UK-born person. So we are disproportionately funding the exchequer, yet are treated like we're parasites.

Do you know why the authorities only ever speak in averages? Because it hides inconvenient truths. The accession countries that joined the EU in 2004 and again in 2007 have never paid their way and are far more likely to be on in work benefits so, no, migrants are not disproportionately funding the exchequer. Some are, but many more are net beneficiaries which is a far preferable term to parasites. By far the biggest numbers of EU citizens in Britain are people from those countries.

Legitimate scum

I'm sorry you have to put up with this shit. I just don't understand what is wrong with such people.

And this. Scum. Utter scum. Oh, no,sorry "concerned citizens".

news.sky.com/story/masked-men-among-those-attempting-to-enter-london-migrant-hotel-as-five-arrested-13421326

What are you on about? Loads of people in my profession go and work in Asia, New Zealand and Australia and people from those countries come over here to work. Why should we stay put just to please people like you with your narrow view of life? Are those flag waving protestors fully contributing to the UK? They seem to have an awful lot of time on their hands for hardworking tax payers.

I'm sorry that this is your experience of the UK currently! Contrary to what a lot of the media would have you believe, there are millions of UK born citizens who are glad you are here and see you as just as much a person who belongs here, as anyone else. Unfortunately there is a bigger agenda at play here - one that seeks to claim more riches for the greedy 1% by increasing living costs at every turn and reduce spend on public services, particularly for the most vulnerable, all the while blaming migrants for it. I believe there could also be a push for digital ID involved - another way to grab power from the common man.
As I'm sure you always would, uphold your own personal values, stand tall and remember you have as much right as anyone to thrive in this county - and world!

The thing is, we need to realise and accept that some people will never see us as “from here”. No matter what. So stop bloody trying to convince them.

“Are you even legal?” Yes I fucking am, and I’d be really concerned if I wasn’t considering I work in a school.

”As a foreigner what do you think about this ?” Don’t drag me into whatever this is.

”How come your English is so good?” Uhmm I went to school.

“insert rant about immigrants/immigration” turns to look at me “I don’t mean you of course!”. Then why even drag me in the conversation?

That’s just at work, from people that have known me for years. I won’t even go into some delightful interactions I’ve had with randoms.

It is what it is and it won’t change.

Labour leaders broke Labour, not their voters.

1. This migration crisis is only going to get worse. Africa has the highest birth rate in the world, and the African population is going to double – right in the middle of climate meltdown.

I think for me that’s a huge point in my anti migration sentiment. Yes selfish and protectionist and I am not denying that. I was lucky to be born here.

And I see others commenting that the British think they are superior and better. No I don’t think most do. But they do know whether subconsciously or consciously that our island, our actual geography. Is superior. To even that of mainland Europe. We are incredibly lucky. And it’s sad it’s going to get really really tough out there. Likely in our lifetimes and certainly in my children’s . But we can’t save everyone. We can however save ourselves if we plan and move towards sustainability and self sufficiency on this island.

And she's not alone. They all vote Labour, though that party was never intended for them. These are the people who broke Labour.