To think that if you cancel on the day with the NHS, you should be put to the bottom of the list?

The outpatient eye clinic at one of my county's hospitals has no system for cancelling a Monday morning appointment late on Fridays or over the weekend.

If you need to cancel a Monday appointment, the appointment phone line is closed after 6pm on Friday. There is no answerphone available on Friday evenings, Saturdays or Sundays where you could leave a message to say you will not be able to attend your Monday morning appointment.

On Mondays, reception is not open for calls until after 9am. But some clinic appointments are for 8:30am. So if you have been given an early morning appointment on a Monday but find you are unable to attend (for whatever reason eg: illness, transport, family crisis, carer no longer available to escort the patient etc) there is no means by which you can inform the clinic over the weekend that you cannot attend.

Since there is no answerphone system in operation, it would seem unfair on the patient to be penalised in any way for not giving the department prior warning that they will not be able to attend.

Letters get sent weeks after the actual appointment. I do hope your attitude isn't this awful with patients.

Is it true the NHS gets fined for appointments they miss/cancel? If so, that alone must be enough to bankrupt them. I'd love it if they published those stats on the hospital wall.

That’s what taxis are for

I was actually labelled as a DNA once when I collapsed in the clinic waiting room and was eventually taken by the clinic nurses and DP down to A&E.

The consultant was already running an hour late, I was 3 metres from his door, and he refused two nurses’ requests to come and look at me.

He DNA-ed me instead. Arsehole. He probably knew I would be too ill to complain, what with the medical condition I had.

Yes, Myrtlethe's question was really quite silly.
I didn't find the MRI scare because I'm not claustrophobic, but it's not difficult to understand that some people are!
I was a bit stressed though because you're not supposed to move and I had a cough. Trying not to cough was really quite difficult!

My DD had a orthodontic treatment at our local hospital, several years ago.
All appointments were during the school day, and necessitated me having a day off work, and her needing about 2 hrs out of school.
A couple of times I needed to cancel, called the number it gave on the letter (with plenty of notice) and either left a message or spoke to someone to cancel/rearrange. Each time we were reprimanded for not attending, despite following the instructions on what to do to cancel.

As much as I wish that people wouldn't deliberately waste NHS resources it might help if they could get their act together a bit. My partner and I both work full time. Last night we arrived home from work to a letter from an NHS clinic my partner is under stating they have made him an appointment for today at 3pm - a time he should be at work 30 miles in the opposite direction. Bit difficult to arrange time off work etc. in that time frame isn't it? He had to message his very unamused manager at home and beg for the afternoon off today to get there. Perhaps some of the wasted appointments are due to this kind of thing - most working people can't get time off, even for medical appointments, for the following day once work is closed for the night!

No worries!

Your comment came across fine and I knew you were agreeing with my point 🙂

Still waiting to learn more about this e-referral platform that's all the rage...

And appointments sent just by post? A big problem for some people e.g. in my case I shared a letterbox with multiple neighbours.

No, because the appointment letter can go missing in the post.

Secondly, who are you to judge that nerves aren't a good reason? You're not the one having the treatment/operation are you?

Can we bill hospital staff if they cancel and we're not informed? I had an appointment cancelled. Previous week they called to remind me and I got a text 2 days before. Turned up and they cancelled it 2 days previously. There was a letter in the post which I got the following day

If they can call to check I'm still coming why can't they call or text to tell me it's cancelled?

Every single appointment I had booked this year has been cancelled at the last minute by the NHS. Some of them several times. Nobody at the hospital cares in the least about my time, my pain, the fact that I can't get my medication.

It depends. I had a letter sent to me for a breast screening appointment whilst I was on holiday for the day I returned. I had to cancel as I had no chance to change work meetings to accommodate it. I’ve also received letters notifying me of an appointment the following day.

Is the Swedish health service a badly run shambles populated with uncaring and judgemental staff, though?

I don't think fining is the answer either whilst there is a lot of disorganisation and bad communication within the NHS. I think it would create badwill amongst people rather than the goodwill needed to support it all being a better system. I'm not knocking the NHS at all, it has been a miraculous organisation for me when I've needed and I'm very grateful. But it's in the communication between depts and hospitals and admin etc where for me it's really falls short sometimes. I do understand this is also not easy to change with such a massive system and I'm sceptical when people just say AI will solve it all or just one big IT system will solve it all. There are so many difficulties and also threats that have to be constantly guarded against these days if you create overly large centralised IT systems. But that being said, my experience has been that there is a lot of separate systems or regions or health boards or even depts that seem not to communicate across each other very well.

I would also worry that you would end up disproportionately penalising the most vulnerable who do not have the money or capacity to deal with such fines. Those who are frail and very elderly are often those that need the NHS the most but might also be on many meds that might make them forgetful or struggle to keep on top of things. Not everyone has super organised family to help them. Those with undiagnosed dementia. Those on very low incomes who might struggle if help or transport falls through. Those with addictions who might be extremely vulnerable and in need of help but whose lives might be out of control or chaotic. Those with very bad depression. Those, yes, with very bad anxiety. Terrible anxiety is a mental health condition and it can also be a symptom of other conditions and sometimes of treatments, all of which renders the person more vulnerable.

Letters do go astray or are very late arriving or even sometimes are so far in advance that someone struggling with memory as a condition or side effect may struggle. I've tried to change appointments before and not been able to get through on the numbers given. As you say you are new, I would say this is unreasonable. I can't help but think this thread might not be that genuine as I can't quite imagine someone starting in the NHS posting this after a very short time with so little grasp of the wide range of issues and situations.

I had a hernia repair in 2022. Had never had any sort of operation before and was quite enxious about it. Also it wan't being done at my local general hospital but at another one 25 miles away with a "poor" reputation.

Had a pre-op assessment the week before and the clinician doing it was great and made all my worries fade away - no problems and no nerves on the big day

I agree in principle, OP, but I don't know how you'd 'police' it in practice.

But I have no patience or sympathy with people who take the piss with the NHS. If there were some way that selfish, stupid people who waste time and resources could be made to take the consequences, I'd be all for that. Yes, I really would, before anyone says 'But what if they NEED to be seen first?'

There is so much structurally wrong with the NHS, there's no easy fix for all its problems, but allowing people to muck about and waste everyone's time is crazy when resources are limited.

(One eg - and not quite the same thing as you're on about...

On an exceedingly hot day 2 years ago (40 degrees - warnings not to travel unless absolutely necessary) we had an appointment at hosp to get my husband's biopsy results. We got bottles of water, wet towels etc for the car and set off, labouring up the hill from the car park in the heat. Got there 20 mins early but were told we couldn't be seen because the previous appointment people were late...and they ended up being an hour late. Why couldn't the consultant have seen us first (appointment only 10 mins)? No explanation given.

Oh, and when we finally got in, he said 'Oh, I'm so sorry - you've had a wasted journey - the results haven't come in yet!'. Why, on that day of all days, couldn't someone have contacted us to save us that nightmare journey and 1.5 hours wait? Aaaarrrghhh. It's not rocket science.

Although I have no complaints about clinical things, I nearly always experience admin issues like this one with the NHS.)

I’ve had three. They terrify me. I’m claustrophobic. The best I had was glasses that allowed me to look out the bottom.

I was backing up what you said, sorry it it came across differently. I notice she's disappeared...

Quite - she was telling us

Even if it did come across rude Op was obviously retaliating to someone who is clearly out to try get a rise out of someone judging by their comments.
It was very obvious in the OP they had started a new job within the nhs and are in their first week

I agree the amount of appointments that payients simply do not turn up is disgraceful- not even a phonecall! We should start charging for missed appointments

@MrsTerryPratchett - "... Money is a poor motivator for behaviour change AND it’s discriminatory. And good luck trying to get that money. It’ll cost more than you’ve charged to get it"

Former NHS manager and management accountant here.

You're right - billing patients for DNA would cost more than it would recover, would waste more resource than the original DNA, and how would you make people pay up.

It won't happen

My Nephew works on A&E reception in a big City General type hospital.

He says the level of entitlement in the public beggars belief.

OP, I work for the NHS too. We can’t penalise people for cancelling.. nerves and fear can be associated with bigger issues.
we do need a way of supporting people into care in a way but we also need a way to ensure people attend and understand the impact of missed appointments. It’s always been this way you’ll find.