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Original poster

To think that paying for airplane seats has broken air travel for families?

234 replies

raggedymum · 26/08/2025 13:13

I just get so stressed when I see anything about plane seat issues - everyone is all "you should pay" but it doesn't take into account all the things that can go wrong, and there is now zero compassion or willingness to shift from other passengers. And somewhat reasonably, as they have paid for their seats!

I'm still traumatised from 6-leg (3 each way) flight last year with DH and then-10yo DD, where despite paying close to £1K to select seats (for very tall DH to get extra legroom and make sure the family was sat together), we sat together on only 1 of the 6 legs. First leg was fine. Second leg - long haul - 2 of the 3 seats we had booked were literally broken and NO ONE could sit there. It took ages for the flight attendants to find anyone willing to move to allow me and DD to sit next to each other for the 8-hour flight. DD (probably ND, we're looking into it), not having flown since she was 4 before the pandemic, was in tears and terrified. At least DH got his extra legroom in the non-broken original seat. Then, that flight encountered weather and we missed the connection. So obviously we didn't have the seats we had paid for on the flight that left before we got off the plane. Again, massive difficulty to find anywhere to get even two seats together. I managed to get behind DD (aisle seats - yet the middles next to us didn't want to move to an aisle to allow us to sit together - I have actually seen threads from people explaining that they chose such on purpose...). Return journey they had overbooked the plane and printed boarding passes with our seats for multiple people. Again, lots of angst but we got DD and me next to each other (and DD absolutely in a panic remembering the problems on the flight over, and me not so far behind). Weather again, and despite actually making the connection, we got there so late they had removed our seats from the system and put other people in them. This time DH was crunched in a regular seat and we did manage to get me and DD together in some middle seats. Final leg the plane was a different type than planned, so at least nobody had seats they had booked, although people still insisted on their seat if they existed in this plane. Again, couldn't get three together and lots of difficulty over arranging for me and DD together. Didn't help that DD was a very tall 10yo (see tall DH...) and people seemed to think she was a stroppy teen and not a panicking possibly-ND 10yo at the end of a very long series of flights.

I'm grateful that I managed to get next to DD on all but one of the legs, but it was so incredibly stressful that I have a panic response at the thought of flying long-haul again, making me really not want to visit family overseas anytime soon...

I completely understand that people don't want to give up seats they may have paid £100+ for. But the fact that everybody pays for very specific seats now means that the gate staff can't shift people who haven't yet checked in around (while keeping groups together) like they used to, to help sort out groups broken up for various reasons. And there is no sympathy because "you should have paid" even when you DID pay (a lot!).

I wonder if instead of picking specific seats, you could pay for "3 seats together with extra legroom", "an aisle seat in cheap economy", etc. I guess that would be much harder for the airlines to sort and figure out if they even could sell that combination, instead of just showing the little maps you select from.

OP posts:
AudHvamm · 26/08/2025 16:47

MyGreyStork · 26/08/2025 13:39

I’ve paid for my seat and not moving for anyone. Your kids are not my problem.

Well they might be if you don't move 😂

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 26/08/2025 16:44

@FlowOverFlow - that is exactly what used to happen, back when I was young - but it meant that ticket prices were a lot higher.

NamelessNancy · 26/08/2025 16:44

AngelesDe · 26/08/2025 16:30

What a strange comment, it could be many places. My DS lives with his family in Omaha, Nebraska.
Three flights minimum from the North East of England, flying to LHR or Amsterdam Schipol, then a flight to Chicago and then a domestic flight to Omaha.

Similar with our flights to Tasmania, North East to London or Schipol, flight to Dubai, on to Sydney and a domestic flight to Tassie. ( 4 flights)

There must be other families with similar flight changes.

Show quote history

Yes, it's incredibly normal to need to get multiple flights. Some people seem live in a bubble though!

FlowOverFlow · 26/08/2025 16:43

You shouldn’t have to pay for a flight and then extra. there should be one charge.

I also don’t agree with darn beds or first class, whilst other people are squashed into uncomfortable spaces.

There should be plenty of space for everyone.

amicisimma · 26/08/2025 16:42

raggedymum · 26/08/2025 14:49

this year we just drove an hour to a holiday home :)

But can't get a ferry across the ocean. Hmm. How much DOES the Queen Mary 2 cost? The prices always seemed ridiculous (and the week to get there) but maybe not more than all the costs of seats and such. Although it would still be at least 2 flights in the US to get to ILs... (OMG, I've just checked a roundtrip to NY, it is less than we paid for our flights last year! maybe we could get ILs to come to NY...)

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Ssh! Don't tell everybody!

We have family in the US and have discovered that the QM2 is 'The Only Way to Cross' (title of a book).

The price varies according to how popular a crossing is, which type of cabin you want, when you book, etc. but if you could travel on 19 November, in an inside cabin, with Cunard allocating the exact cabin, you would pay £1497 for all three of you. You'd need to get back, of course, but you can often get good offers as part of a fly-cruise. Unless you can spare another week to sail back.

The other issue is that it takes a week. But what a week you'll have, living like celebrities from the 1930s, or, if you prefer, just chilling around the ship. It's very civilised and they even have clubs for children/teenagers which your DC might, or might not, enjoy. And fabulous food and good entertainment included.

And you leave from Southampton where hotels are cheaper than London.

Hairshare · 26/08/2025 16:40

raggedymum · 26/08/2025 15:03

But it wasn't about a certain TYPE of seat. It was THAT seat. So not moving a few rows up from aisle to aisle with the exact same leg room so that an aisle and middle free would then be together. Which is why I wondered if they could sell 'types' of seat (like on trains, like someone suggested). I guess the issue is with trains they don't have to make sure everyone has a seat. Whereas it could be a weird set of combinatorics to sell X-together economy-plus and 15 aisles anywhere and 23 windows economy-basic, etc, to make sure it actually fit on the plane.

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What a hideous journey that was, and what incredibly bad luck.
I think it's a serous problem for some passengers that the airline won't and arguably can't guarantee their selected seats will be available. Particularly as the seats in economy and small and uncomfortable anyway, to a degree, so the baseline is low.
Maybe you could get some certification that DD needs priority because of her ND? Maybe the airline would take that seriously?

OMGitsnotgood · 26/08/2025 16:39

@raggedymumgosh that is shocking

Original poster
raggedymum · 26/08/2025 16:38

ImpPeril · 26/08/2025 16:26

That sounds like a very stressful journey OP. And such a shame people feel the need to be so horrible about it although I do think it's awful that airlines put anytime in those circumstances to begin with.

I think the pressure for people to book seats causes a lot of problems which increases the need for others to book a seat (although not because they actually want to book any particular seat) and so the whole 'need' to do so it's only driven by the initial few who care and disappointing to many.

I like the previously suggested idea of entering booking preferences for on trains for the software to determine the best seating. However, I can't see the system going back to all in prices.

As things stand I would be very supportive of tiered booking 'bands' like:

  • No additional cost = happy to sit anywhere, next to anyone
    Or = children primary aged and under next to an adult in the same booking seats not selectable

  • Small additional cost = for the booking to be seated as a group (but seats not selectable)

  • Cost per seat choice = seat selection to sit where each person wants (with supply and demand seat specific pricing?)

Edited

I like this idea!

And I think they must slowly "unblock" seats as the plane fills up (given my experience in being easily able to move from an exit row to another seat when on the phone minutes later, when the seat selection tool showed nothing else available), so they could have a set of seats that are available only for those that wish to pay and keep a block in which they can seat the first two categories.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:35

AngelesDe · 26/08/2025 16:30

What a strange comment, it could be many places. My DS lives with his family in Omaha, Nebraska.
Three flights minimum from the North East of England, flying to LHR or Amsterdam Schipol, then a flight to Chicago and then a domestic flight to Omaha.

Similar with our flights to Tasmania, North East to London or Schipol, flight to Dubai, on to Sydney and a domestic flight to Tassie. ( 4 flights)

There must be other families with similar flight changes.

Show quote history

I always get a strong, "Still lives in hometown, married high school sweetheart, mum lives round the corner, hasn't got enough imagination to comprehend other people doing something as weird as marrying someone from another country" vibe from those posters.

Original poster
raggedymum · 26/08/2025 16:35

OMGitsnotgood · 26/08/2025 15:52

There was a time when you paid for everything whether you wanted it or not (seat/food/hold baggage). Flights were relatively more expensive then, but everything that is now considered ‘extra’ is charged separately so you notice it more. I think the airlines have taken those things out to make the flights look cheaper, which I’d course they aren’t when you add the extras back in.

Personally I’d always pay for seats if travelling with children who wouldn’t be ok sat on their own. I also pay for seats for me and DH (no children with us now), ever since a flight was overbooked and those without seats booked were bounced. That was some time ago, not sure how often it happens these days

Well, apparently in the US overbooking now includes selling the SAME seats to people. So paying for them didn't help.

OP posts:
notimagain · 26/08/2025 16:35

The problem is that the air travel industry isn't governed by any particular legal jurisdiction.so they tend to do whatever the fuck they want

That's not quite correct though is it?

There's a tremendous amount of legislation, conventiond etc that means airlines can't just do "whatever the fuck they want", but a lot of it is at national or regional level so yes there can be significant differences...

When it comes to moving people around you'll never ever be able to guarantee that people won't or can't be moved from their booked seats, because sometimes operational requirements may demand it (load, balance,.inop.seats, etc).

AngelesDe · 26/08/2025 16:30

ThejoyofNC · 26/08/2025 13:33

Where on earth were you flying to/from that you needed to get 3 flights each way? And that madness plus £1000 spent on selecting seats was preferable to flying direct?

What a strange comment, it could be many places. My DS lives with his family in Omaha, Nebraska.
Three flights minimum from the North East of England, flying to LHR or Amsterdam Schipol, then a flight to Chicago and then a domestic flight to Omaha.

Similar with our flights to Tasmania, North East to London or Schipol, flight to Dubai, on to Sydney and a domestic flight to Tassie. ( 4 flights)

There must be other families with similar flight changes.

RimTimTagiDim · 26/08/2025 16:28

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:26

It would make a difference to me.

I'd be much more willing to move if my only reason for being in that particular seat was "because I want it" rather than "because I want it and have paid a lot of money for it".

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I don't agree but don't see any point in us keep exchanging the same opinions! Maybe airlines will go back to free seat choice and we can see who was right.

RafaFan · 26/08/2025 16:28

Ariela · 26/08/2025 15:43

Simple answer: UK holidays. Holidays don't have to be hot and sunny.
Holidays can be adventures to places you've not been before.

What if the reason for the trip is to visit family who live in another country?...as the OP has stated.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 26/08/2025 16:27

Sorry - I pressed enter too soon, so I am editing this post.

Back when I was a teen, in the 80s, air travel was too expensive for a lot of people. It is cheaper now, and part of that is the airlines making things like seat selection, hold baggage, food/snacks extras that you can choose to pay for if you want them, but aren’t bundled into the ticket price as they used to be.

So on the one hand, the current system has made air travel possible for a lot more people including families, but on the other hand it has created problems such as the ones you had, @raggedymum.

I’m honestly not sure what the answer is, other than regulatory bodies saying that children under a particular age must be sat with a parent/accompanying adult, and this means in the same row, next to each other or only separated by the aisle.

ImpPeril · 26/08/2025 16:26

That sounds like a very stressful journey OP. And such a shame people feel the need to be so horrible about it although I do think it's awful that airlines put anytime in those circumstances to begin with.

I think the pressure for people to book seats causes a lot of problems which increases the need for others to book a seat (although not because they actually want to book any particular seat) and so the whole 'need' to do so it's only driven by the initial few who care and disappointing to many.

I like the previously suggested idea of entering booking preferences for on trains for the software to determine the best seating. However, I can't see the system going back to all in prices.

As things stand I would be very supportive of tiered booking 'bands' like:

  • No additional cost = happy to sit anywhere, next to anyone
    Or = children primary aged and under next to an adult in the same booking seats not selectable

  • Small additional cost = for the booking to be seated as a group (but seats not selectable)

  • Cost per seat choice = seat selection to sit where each person wants (with supply and demand seat specific pricing?)

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:26

RimTimTagiDim · 26/08/2025 16:22

So you'll swap when you don't have any specific requirements, like being next to your daughter.

When people have specific requirements, they pay for a seat.

When people don't care where they sit, they don't pay.

If nobody had to pay, the two groups would still be the same - people who want a specific seat and won't move if they get it, and people who don't care and will move.

Paying makes no difference.

Show quote history

It would make a difference to me.

I'd be much more willing to move if my only reason for being in that particular seat was "because I want it" rather than "because I want it and have paid a lot of money for it".

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:24

HundredMilesAnHour · 26/08/2025 16:14

It depends on the airline. Some do, some don’t. BA refund seat fees if you aren’t able to use the seat you reserved (due to a change of plane, broken seat etc).

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I really think that when you select the option to pay to choose your seat there should be a pop up which says, "Paying to select your seat does not guarantee that you will actually be able to sit in that seat, and cabin crew may require you to move to any other seat for any reason, including to a middle seat in the back row away from your travelling companions and you will not be offered any compensation if this happens. Do you wish to proceed?" and you should have to click on, "Yes, that's fine, would you like me to give you my firstborn child and make you a sandwich as well?" or, "No, fuck that for a game of soldiers."

The problem is that the air travel industry isn't governed by any particular legal jurisdiction.so they tend to do whatever the fuck they want. The EU has managed to clamp down on certain unfair practices by putting in place rules around things like compensation for delay and disruption, they could probably do something about this too. Would be convenient for me because all my plane journeys start or end in the EU, but might not be much help to the OP.

RimTimTagiDim · 26/08/2025 16:22

raggedymum · 26/08/2025 15:10

If you'd been seated with your daughter for free, would you have moved for someone else who wanted your seat? No.

I would, as long as I could be seated with my daughter. So I wouldn't have minded moving forward or back, from aisle/middle to middle/window, etc. Actually, as a teen I was traveling transatlantic with a friend and I swapped seats with a poor fellow who didn't even ask us - he must have been close to 7 feet tall and was scrunched into that very back row that has even less room and doesn't recline. He just looked so miserable. Sitting with my friend on my first transatlantic flight wasn't worth leaving him there. And this was back when no one paid for seats - I'm surprised the flight attendants didn't attempt to help him out! Maybe they would have if we hadn't swapped.

So you'll swap when you don't have any specific requirements, like being next to your daughter.

When people have specific requirements, they pay for a seat.

When people don't care where they sit, they don't pay.

If nobody had to pay, the two groups would still be the same - people who want a specific seat and won't move if they get it, and people who don't care and will move.

Paying makes no difference.

CallItLoneliness · 26/08/2025 16:22

It is possible for airlines to automatically seat people booked together together--Air New Zealand have this policy, even for adults on the same booking.

As for everyone saying "oh, but you have been very unlucky"--this is normal in long haul travel now. I travel long haul for work 2-3 times a year, and since COVID I have not had one single long haul flight (where I am requires at least one connection and often more) where there has not been some fuck up. The OPs experience is way more typical outside of EU/UK than you might think (EU/UK being incentivised not to fuck up by having some level of passenger rights).

OP, Heathrow have sunflower lanyards for free. Not sure how well recognised they are in the US, but they are a real godsend with my ND kids.

ParmaVioletTea · 26/08/2025 16:18

A lot of these threads understandably end up as a pile on of the airlines but the reality is nearly half a century ago now, maybe more the marketers at the LoCos sussed out human nature and the attraction of unbundled fares...and I don't think there is any way back.

And @notimagain a lot of posters forget - or probably never knew - what flying was like before the low-cost airlines did this unbundling.

Flying was expensive, and probably beyond affordability for most posters who complain about airlines' practices now. Flights also didn't go to all the places they go to now, and hardly so frequently.

The unbundling of costs of flying has democratised flying and enabled many more people to afford "foreign" holidays in a way that before the 1990s just wasn't affordable for most people.

I was in a big family raised in the 1960s, and we went abroad a lot - this was before mass package holidays, and charter flights. We drove to my family's villa, staying with friends in Europe along the way. That was part of the fun!

Minxny · 26/08/2025 16:16

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:06

I do think there is a way back if we flip it round, as per my suggestion above. So instead of people paying to select their seats, people get a discount for being willing to sit anywhere.

Any booking which includes children should either not offer discounted tickets, or should only offer however many discounted tickets that would still allow each child on the booking to be sat with an adult. (If you have one adult and one or more children, no discounted tickets are available, if you have two adults and one child, one discounted ticket is available, and if you have two or more adults and two or more children you can only buy a discounted ticket for the number of adults exceeding the number of children in your group, so if you have three adults and two children you can select a discounted ticket for one of the adults if you wish.)

Your couple in this scenario could both select discounted tickets for sitting apart.

Show quote history

The trouble is they are all competing for the lowest headline price. That is what sells, especially now there are so many price comparison sites and brokers.

HundredMilesAnHour · 26/08/2025 16:14

MyDogHumpsThings · 26/08/2025 14:45

If you are unable, thorough no fault of your own, to occupy the seat you have paid for, the airline should refund it. No idea if they actually do, but if they’ve charged for a service they cannot provide, it feels reasonable that you should be refunded the price you paid to select the seats.

It depends on the airline. Some do, some don’t. BA refund seat fees if you aren’t able to use the seat you reserved (due to a change of plane, broken seat etc).

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/08/2025 16:13

ParmaVioletTea · 26/08/2025 16:11

YABU. The issue was the routing - 3 flights just to go on holidays? Madness! Simplify next time, particularly around those tight connections.

Perhaps her in laws should just move to the UK.

itsgettingweird · 26/08/2025 16:12

Ds and a friend flew London to Scotland and could chose their seat for free. I was surprised!

They sat together up there and sat separately on the way back (could chose seat but not 2 together) but didn’t care.

I agree that somewhere something has gone wrong. Trying to have cheaper prices has actually added extra costs and then you don’t get what you’ve paid for. Whereas previously you just got the desk and booked in and rarely ever sat separately (IME) from at least 1 of the children even if you couldn’t sit as a family.

When ds was a child I use to contact airline as he’s disabled and we booked special assistance and we were always say together, if your DD is ND that may be an option for you?

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