I've just seen the most depressing thing

I'm not really sure why you are mentioning nuance to me when it's you who has given the most stark example of a child just sitting still for 20mins doing nothing?

I've been very much in the camp of "we can't know what goes on in the background of a family" so I clearly get the nuance. I also understand that a child being sat still might be out of fear, or that a child brightly asking questions and taking part in an interaction might be just the loveliest thing.

My parents (and all other parents I knew) used to sit me in front of a tv for kids programming at 5pm just so they could get a breather. So it's not a new thing, the device is just portable now

I’ve made a similar comment on a thread about Nursery readiness. I also work in primary education and have done for the last 22 years. It’s disgraceful that this has been allowed to happen to our children. The impact on speech and behaviour has been monumental. I really do worry about the future. It’s piss poor, lazy parenting. Anyone claiming it’s not must clearly do the same. No child under secondary school age needs to be on any device, ever!

I don’t disagree with you. I use screens at home to enable me to get things done. I also am probably quite addicted to my own phone however I am mindful of limiting both of our time on screens and try not to use them at all when we’re out.

However I think your post stinks of judgement and superiority. Why are you so overly invested in the snapshot of the life of a stranger? On the face of it it isn’t good parenting no but there are far worse things happening in the world, and you need to remember you don’t know the context of the phone usage or what they’ve been doing with the other 23 and a half hours of the day.

This is Mumsnet for you these days. Posters will distort what was actually said and only talk in extremes. No-one said children shouldn't have screens at all, mine did but never when outside the home, ever and never when eating together at the table.

One of my DCs friends is so far gone with constantly using her phone that she's literally losing her friends. She was here one day with a few other friends, I made them some food and called them to the table, friend put her phone on the table and watched Netflix ignoring the others. Another time at a sleepover, she spend the entire night on her phone, so now the friends don't invite her anywhere anymore, she has nothing to contribute to a friendship.

She's only 13, it's very sad but clearly it's all she knows. No-one expects teenagers not to use phones at all but when it's to this extreme, there's clearly a problem. And before anyone starts, no she doesn't have SEN.

BS. Lucky dd has a mum who cares.

Someone made a passing comment to me when I was using my phone while pushing my baby in the pram. I was buying a bus ticket for the bus we were about to board and hadn't otherwise looked at my phone all day but the comment completely ruined my day (I had ppd) and threw me into a spiral of self doubt about my parenting

Totally agree. Some of the responses on this thread really highlight why so many kids struggle to just be these days. As adults, we spend a lot of time sitting bored in queues, appointments, or shared spaces- it’s not something you suddenly learn overnight.

Children need time to develop the patience and resilience to sit quietly and occupy themselves, and that comes from having space to do exactly that when they’re young.

I'm guessing that you never sat your child in front of the television so you could have a break or get on with something else? You sound like the perfect parent.

Wow, this has annoyed some people hasn't it?
You are right, she's still your dd, you've had kids and she's learning, like any good mum/daughter relationships of course she'll want your input. Well spoken.
Obviously within reason but you already know that.

Children used to ride in cars on an adult’s lap, or just sitting on the back seat. No one had seat belts. Not now considered acceptable.

I see what you mean, but I think there’s a bit of a difference between “boredom” as in being trapped with nothing to do, and true downtime, which can actually be really beneficial for kids. Downtime isn’t about lazily leaving children to stare at walls- it’s unstructured time where they choose what to do, without constant input or entertainment.

Research shows that kids need this kind of space to be creative, build problem solving skills, process emotions and develop emotional regulation and develop resilience. It’s so important.

Even sports or outdoor play doesn’t tick these boxes- structured activities can be stimulating and fun, but they don’t give children the same chance to self-direct, imagine, or just be. Downtime is not “doing nothing”- it’s giving them the mental and emotional space to grow in a way that’s self-directed. My kids will happily go off and find their own direction/play imaginatively when left for a day at home and they actively ask for days like that.

I thought you were going to say he was really attentive towards her, and they shared an emotional goodbye. 😥

No. Regardless of his circumstances, he should not be ignoring his child —especially to the extent of letting her keep choking on her food.

What’s the correlation between car seats and screens?

True. As a seven year old in Greater London, I used to bring my little brother with me on the Tube to our school near Hanger Lane. No stops involved, a quick short ride, but imagine doing that now. My parents would have been locked in the Tower.
All this was necessitated because we’d no car, and my father depended on a lift into the city every morning, and this kind man would drop us kids at the nearby Tube station en route, and Ma would pick us up when school ended, and we’d walk back home from the station.
Worked extremely well, though not long after this we decamped to a small market town near the Cotswolds, far away from Tube stations!
Here, we engaged in exactly what you described. Dawn to dusk we’d be out in fields and along old railway lines with pals, parents not knowing where the hell we were and not being bothered at all.

I agree that phones/screens have reached crisis point with kids. I think people need to be a lot more discerning with them and save them for the times they’re actually needed.

I wouldn't call this the most depressing situation I have ever seen, far from it. Everyone to their own.

I am in agreement op- this doesn’t sound acceptable and the likelihood that his grandmother had just died blah blah is low.

However, this did make me pause as I live near to a health centre where a load of health visitors are based.

Literally this morning, I was desperately trying to get my kids to their dentist appointment and the toddler was having none of it- actually had to chase them down our street as they were refusing to even get in the car! Our dentist will just strike you off their patient list if you even dare miss an appointment, so I was losing my mind.

Just as a HV walked past my car, I was literally shoving my phone with kids YouTube on (prob cocomelon or something equally hideous) straight in my toddlers face going ‘do you not want this?!? Take this!’ Whilst they screamed and writhed- and I very visibly saw the HV’s eyes roll. My kids have so much parental input / stimulation and I was desperately trying to get my child to their dentist appointment fgs, but she couldn’t possibly know that. So I do wish people would be mindful that they don’t always know the whole story!

Why can you not deal in nuance? I know this family well, the kids are great, love their parents and perfectly bouncy and curious and lively, but when the occasion demands it, they can sit still and behave. What on earth is with with that? The conversation I was having with the mum wasn't idle chit chat and even if it was, it's rude for kids to interrupt adults...a fact that seems increasingly to be up for debate ...

You really never can do right as a parent because you will instantly get judges the very second you do something that's not perfect. It's no wonder so many parents are exhausted and stressed out.

I have a long list of thing I don't like seeing when it comes to children and I have done every single one of them on occasions. So I try not to judge when I see not ideal behaviour.

• Screens in prams. I hate seeing it, don't think it's good for kids but I have done it once when I was exhausted after three nights of no sleep and having to take toddler to get his vaccinations.

• McDonald's or other similar fast food places. It's rubbish food and shouldn't be elevated to being a "treat" because it makes it special and desirable. But we have had it on the rare occasions that there was literally nothing else available.

• Clothes with TV character on them. Even worse when it for TV show that are not age appropriate for the child. I think it's one step away from clothes with brand names on them. My DS has a minions t-shirt and a paw patrol t-shirt. Both bought in a moment of weakness when he was so excited when he saw them in the shop.

• Lollypops shouldn't be giving to kids under 6. My almost 4 year old has had 3. One at a party, one his grandmother bought and once I got him one after he asked about one for two weeks so I bought him the one he wanted and he had two licks and decided he didn't like it.

• Ideally kids shouldn't have screens in cafes and restaurants but I have given a screen on a few occasions. For example when meeting a friend I haven't seen in a long time and the only time we could meet was when I had DS. At a nice restaurant with family and DS has been good for over an hour and we are just waiting for dessert then I might let him play a toddler game on my phone if he is getting very bored.

Another thing that apparently makes me a bad parent is that I don't talk much to DS when he is in the pram and I'm on my phone quite a bit when pushing the pram. There are a few reasons for this, a big one is I can't hear him very well when he is sitting in the pram. Really I never understand it when people say they chat with their kids when they push the pram because genuinely I can't understand anything that he says. Maybe these people live in quite small villages? Or maybe my hearing is just bad. But it's frustrating for both of us if I constantly need to stop and bend down to hear what is being said.

Also DS was a horrible sleeper but he would always sleep in a moving pram. So I walked for hours around town and in the park. Just to get him to sleep. And I spent a lot of that time on my phone because I was exhausted and it was one of the few things keeping me awake.

I'm not ridiculous. My grandmother certainly believed this and all her kids resented her but she was rather stuck in victorian times despite being born in 1936. Like I said, I'd be much more impressed and excited to meet a child who would ask questions or chat or wander about the room looking at things. Curiosity is healthy.

My immediate reaction was ‘poor child’… But, I’m sat here on my phone having just popped the TV on for my 3 year old.
What you don’t see is that we’ve already been to the park, made cupcakes and done puzzles. I’ve just put her 4 month old baby brother to sleep and needed 20 minutes to recharge before I start dinner. So I can kind of understand the ‘it’s only a snapshot’ arguments.

Don't be ridiculous. The lad in question has much older siblings who are thriving, hard working, sociable and happy. There is nothing wrong with being seen and not heard for a short period every now and then.