Territorial dispute in swimming pool

Sheesh.

I'm not doing any mental gymnastics. I'm just looking at it as a problem and can see a perfectly logical explanation for his lane selection.

I swim a lot and I'm guessing I'm more familiar with Lane swimming than many here.

It would be what I would do in that situation

The OP and PP are coming up with theories of harassment, misogyny etc to explain his behaviour.

Why are they any more valid?
Is it not permitted to have a differing opinion these days?
Must I always take the side of the OP?

I would have said a bad word to him.
Childish but 😉 enjoyable

So why wouldn't you consider that lane swimming?

I would have said a bad word to him.
Childish but 😉 enjoyable

It happens on roads all day long!

Were there lane ropes in or just lanes marked out on the pool floor?

Ahh misunderstood
so he dipped under rope and went into next lane rather than expecting OP because she was faster

Read the OP again. She caught him up

You had to do some impressive gymnastics there to come up with how it’s all her fault. All that to put her in the wrong vs the notion of the man behaving in less than a stellar inconsiderate manner.

Well, that was a remarkably balanced argument.

The problem here is that this thread (and others I've read recently) are not calling them out on their actual behaviour.

They're being tried for their perceived behaviour as reported by an OP and then usually wildly extrapolated by other women on the thread. And always found guilty. And this thread is particularly egregious since it looks like OP was the intransigent one and not the man.

Here's a thought experiment.

Try replacing man in this thread (or your final paragraph) with "person of colour" and see how terribly 1950's the conversation sounds.

And here's another.

Try suggesting that there should be some men-only sessions in the pool (so they can be splashy and performative) and listen to the outrage (like you just posted) of how men have everything. Every pool i know has at least one women-only session (often to accommodate religious needs), and usually some OAP sessions. I see nothing that advantages men in these arrangements.

I dislike group-based vitriol.

We campaigned for decades to be seen as individuals, not just lumped into a group with some perceived demeaning characteristics. We enlisted men into that fight.

I dislike an equivalence such as "men=boorish,sexist,etc" just as much as I dislike any characterisation of women as petty, helpless, nagging, etc

I think he was expecting you to mind out of his way. (Is there any chance he didn't spot you when he first got in the pool?)

I have had this happen to me (not the swimming underneath part though). I think you can just tell the difference, there are people who are polite, who smile, swim around others or wait for a space before they go ahead. There are also people who pick their spot, put their goggles on and plough on regardless forcing everyone else to move.

I think swimming underneath you is creepy and disrespectful.

Oh boo hoo, the poor mens 😭 they're so hard done by. It's a womans world after all 🙄

Or here's a thought, maybe if men started to act with respect and empathy towards women instead of misogyny, sexism and hatred we wouldn't need to call them out on their behaviour.

Lane 1 is horrid to swim in - it's against a wall (which makes a difference) and people get in and out there. It's usually used by weaker swimmers, often breaststrokers.

Lane 2 through 4 get progressively quicker.

He went into lane 2 out of habit (since it seems it's his kinda speed).

She caught up with him so she's probably lane 3 speed. He probably thought she'd jump into Lane 3 since she's faster and he won't want to duck into Lane 1 (it's still horrid).

She didn't move (being of a territorial mindset, as per OP), so he moved.

He swam under her rather than across her - it's not exactly complicated. Swimming across lanes and lifting float-ropes over your head is annoying, often scratches, and is slow.

She left, he did the good thing of returning to a lane that he reckons is more his speed than Lane 3 where he holds people up.

Seems he was more reasonable than her if you ask me.

Jeez - I'm sure this place is called Mumsnet

But perhaps www.misandrist.com is available

I'm starting to feel sorry for men these days. The OP seems to be making a fuss about not a lot and, while there are a number of people saying she's a bit territorial, there's a lot of quite sexist comments about men.

I'm not sure how any of you would react to that other pool perennial trope of the two women breast stroking side by side, heads up, then having a layback side by side at the end of the pool, making it really hard to turn without touching either of them. Do we think the accidental touch by a man in that situation is sexual assault or just the women being knobs (as per PP description)

It is always an issue with lane swimming especially if they are divided into slow medium and fast. I am in between slow and medium but if you get a slower swimmer and try to overtake some slow swimmers don't like it. All they have to do is stop at the end of the lane and let a faster swimmer go ahead. However few do that and I have even been deliberately hit by swimmers that should be in the slow lane. Doesn't always make for a relaxing swim :)

your definition of 'anger' seems very different to everyone else's, and, indeed, the dictionary, but okay.

a lot of people are just arseholes when it comes to swimming lanes you go in the lane relevant to your ability rather than which one you fancy

If the lanes don't have speed indicators, and the pool is mostly empty, you choose whichever empty lane you fancy. If there were already people in every lane, you choose the lane that is nearest your swimming speed.

with 3 lanes you’d presume slow med and fast
he got in at the side went to medium lane but was faster than OP ( he caught her up ) then ducted under rope to fast lane
when OP got he went back to medium lane

a lot of people are just arseholes when it comes to swimming lanes you go in the lane relevant to your ability rather than which one you fancy

I mean washing your hands of forming an opinion of the man’s intentions, by saying that we have no idea what they were. I’m not straying from the point of the thread, I’ve just responded to your statement that we can have no idea what his intentions were. @MissScarletInTheBallroom has demonstrated very well that we can.

Right. MissScarlet nailed it completely. I can't find her original post, so I am quoting yours, sorry.

Nonsense, a jury uses evidence hence why convictions are so difficult and you’ve now strayed so far from the point of the thread that it’s ridiculous. I’m not washing my hands of anything (bizarre thing to say) as i’m not involved nor responsible. If the OP thought this man’s behaviour threatening she had the option to report to lifeguards but she didn’t she asked for opinions on an internet chat, she got differing ones and if you care to scroll back to my original post you’ll see that I offered a suggestion of an alternative framing of the issue in a kind manner. If choosing not to believe all odd behaviour is intentionally malicious means i’m ‘washing my hands’ then so be it.

You can infer people’s intentions from actions with some careful thought and common sense. Juries and other tribunals have to do it every day of the week, and fortunately they don’t just wash their hands of it as readily as you!

I think it was @MissScarletInTheBallroom who analysed his behaviour and intentions. I thought the logic of that was pretty spot on. It’s not true to say we have no idea. You might think it’s not worth bothering to think about (I would disagree), but that would be a separate argument.

Perhaps because I couldn’t be arsed to reply to such anger. The fact is neither you, I or anyone has any idea what this blokes intentions were. We have all used our lived experience to contribute to what is all just assumption. I have swum almost daily for over 30 years and have encountered every manner of arsehole. I’ve also become friendly with a man who once got really arsey because I had the cheek to overtake him so I am fully aware of different levels of intimidation and aggression in the pool but you know what, I chose to not default to everyone’s a c@nt with so little evidence. I hope that response was enough for you. Your response to mine was unnecessarily aggressive but I suspect your default setting is just more angry than mine. All the best.