To think that family holidays are bloody hard work for mothers?!

I picked YANBU because everything you said resonated with me. The ‘desk research’ picking the holiday destination in no way equated to the work load in actually making the holiday a success. It made me fed up to feel that choosing the vacation location was the key to making it happen; no, sorry, the person who packs and plans is the king-maker here.

Agree. My DH would do everything but differently and it would be shit.

He cannot anticipate anything so for example I would take water bottles out because I know my ds gets very thirsty and then very upset if he doesn't have water immediately. DH will not think about the water, go out without a bottle but be happy to buy one. But DS will get upset because it takes time to find somewhere for water and then he will have a meltdown and an hour of being out gets ruined.

So technically he is happy to get water. I could decide to let him crack on with it so I never have to worry about packing water bottles again. But it doesn't end well.

Not here, I've planned and booked the days out, done the food shop and I do all the driving (he doesn't drive). He did all the washing, cooks the meals and we both handle the kids and get involved in whatever we're doing.

I packed mine and the kids clothes, he sorted his clothes, all toiletries/meds/phone chargers etc.

We don't have to plan accommodation (family owned holiday lodge) but if we did it would be a joint decision

No one is saying that holidays with young kids can’t be hard. But when they are harder because your DH ‘doesn’t see the donkey work’, that’s bullshit.

Of course your DH sees it. He just doesn’t care that he watches you struggle with it.

Honestly, when will women stop infantilising men.

I don't agree. It's not most women's "values" to do all the domestic work and mental load. They do it because if they don't then nobody else does and the household needs to be run and the children taken care of.

They would sooner their partners had better "values" of equal labour.

To say that families with this toxic dynamic attract the same, well I just can't get my head around that. It's almost like blaming women for suffering with this inequality.

Indeed.

DH isn't like OP's husband and nor any of DH's friends or my friends' husbands to the best of my knowledge. My brother isn't like that, my father isn't and nor is my just turned 80 year old FIL.

Our current holiday is just as much a break for me as it is for DH because we split the general catering/cleaning/childcare/planning responsibilities equally same as at home.

But these men get away with it because of the attitude of “all men are like that”, & “it’s just how it is for mothers”. It basically says that you shouldn’t expect anything better, and it should be challenged.

I hear you OP. My marriage was like this too but I’m now divorced from him…

This might be a slightly controversial opinion but I think age comes into this (I’m 44 as is my ex-husband) - it looks to me as though younger men are slightly better at dividing the load. Mine was almost Victorian in his attitude - I got more help once divorced.

I would also say though that your attitude is key to how you feel. I’ve been a single parent for 8 years now and in all honesty I don’t want a partner even though in SOME respects it might ease the load. This summer I took my 2 kids abroad myself and I honestly did have a good time. They’re 13 and 9 now so not tiny - but there is still a fair amount to do. At one point I asked a lady next to us round the pool if I could shift a sunbed a bit to get some shade and she was like ‘yes but I can’t move it and my husband is in the pool!’ I found myself thinking ‘I don’t need a husband for anything!’ And I don’t. I only mention this because - she was having a nice holiday (relaxing while her DH played with their kid in the pool) AND I was having a nice holiday (doing everything myself but accepting it). It’s about how you see it mentally.

All that said though I wouldn’t go on a plane alone with two kids under 6/7 - and I didn’t. I did do solo trips but UK beach stuff. So if yours are little still and your DH isn’t helping I get that it doenst feel restful. But like - let it teach you something about how you want to be in the future. It doenst have to be that way. x

Aww poor OP, she was looking for a bit of solidarity and everyone just uses it as an opportunity to say how much better their husbands and life choices are 😑
Holiday are amazing but can be a bit of hard work too - siblings spending 24/7 together!!
Try and enjoy it ans don’t sweat the small stuff!

I'm always amazed by how out of step Mumsnet is on this point with:

Large scale population time-use surveys (although to be fair I don't think they ask about division of labour on holiday - but one does assume that if one parent does more donkey work at home, it's quite likely to be similar on holiday)
What I see around me

My DH IS "one of the good ones" in our circle of friends and acquaintances.

Does he do half?

No!

it a lot easier if you go AI!

I’ve banned self-catering holidays for this reason.

I don’t want to go on holiday to have to cook, clean, make beds etc.

Why are you letting your husband get away with not doing the work? Don’t be a martyr. Tell him to look after HIS kids.

I think your DH is the problem. Start delegating and don’t just do everything yourself

Ugh absolutely and part of the reason we haven't had a family holiday since we only had one dc. It is a task that I'm not up for tbh. Packing and organising everyone , getting 2/3 outfits ready every day while on holiday and then coming home and having to unpack and do laundry. Dh is good at entertaining them but everything else falls to me. It's the same with most families I know apart from two that I can think of who are hands on.

Dh and I share the load so I don’t feel like this. It always amazes me how relationships are portrayed on mn. It would never occur to dh to leave me to plan everything.

That’s because your own family will have similar values to you, you’ve learned from them - and you will have found similar friends. Birds of a feather flock together. There will be other entire groups of friends where all the husbands are the good ones.

There aren't that many of them. Statistics back this up.

That's why I don't understand why people go abroad with young children we just went to holiday parks in this country. Half board so only had to worry about lunches lots of things to do and evening entertainment.

The reason men get away with it is because they grind women down. Chasing them to change their shitty behaviour becomes just another chore, on top of everything else.

Only if you made a bad choice husband and father wise. (No judgement btw, I did, and holidays were hard, many an argument, now, obviously, divorced). There are good guys out there.

Why do you need to make the lists tho? Is he incapable bc he’s a bit thick or just can’t be bothered? Weaponised incompetence? Or it bc you’re a bit of a control freak and prefer to organise what goes down and he’s passive and just gets on with it?

I can never understand why women let men who are presumably bright enough to be employed get away with fuck all of the organisation and mental load. It’s enabling them to be shit and you can’t then complain if you’re having to do it all the time. Not meeting your standards is one thing but you should expect them to take some of the responsibility for their own children and family holiday.

Is it just on holiday though? I’d saying being a mother is hard work generally. I’d have kids if I could be a dad! They seem to get the easier ride.

Really? I think it’s quite a low bar to find a man who doesn’t think I’m beneath him and therefore must pick up the drudge work he doesn’t want to do. DH would never treat me like that, firstly because he respects me, and secondly because he adores our DDs and would do anything for/with them.