To be fascinated by tidy people

This makes no sense to me. There are days where breakfast lunch and dinner dishes aren’t done as we go and are put in the sink to do in a oner before bed. Either scenario doesn’t lead to “running about all day”. In the first scenario I walk two feet to my sink and wash 3 bowls and spoons. Doesn’t even take 5 minutes. In the second scenario all the dishes are washed in about 15 minutes at some point before we turn in.

So dishes (either done after each meal or in 15 minutes at the end of the day) plus my son tidying his toys, was all the tidying done that day. This doesn’t constitute “running around all day tidying.”

How does it take a whole day of you supervising your daughter to get her to tidy up her toys? My son plays with whatever he wants throughout the day and puts them away before bed.

This is why my house is tidy- there isn’t a mess constantly needing sorted. I don’t run around all day long tidying. Incant imagine anything more boring the hovering over my child to make sure he tidies. I spend my down time on the couch! I think if it takes an entire day of cajoling your child to tidy up they probably have too many toys so it’s overwhelming for them. My 4 year old can tidy his toys by himself in 5 minutes.

It definitely helps if mess makes you anxious. 🤣 I can’t settle in a messy house so to calm my mind I have to tidy first. Once it’s tidy, I am at peace ✌️

There is definitely something in being physically able to put things away.

I have quite a few adhd traits plus I’m physically disabled and live with high levels of pain. I’ve just finished a snack and the wrapper is next to me on the sofa, it will stay there until I can get back up and go to the kitchen.

I have to have my painkillers on the sofa as I need them regularly and I will not take them unless I can see them.

so the OHIO method doesn’t work for me, but I can see why it works for others who don’t need visual reminders of things and can get up and down frequently etc.

@PassOnThat
The replies regarding the one touch or put it away system from me were in reply to the constant suggestion that tidy people must just spend all day doing chores with the added implication that we must be rigid bores surgically attached to a vacuum cleaner
Which is not true
Again its one action
Put it where it belongs
As opposed to put it in a pile( one action) and then have to tidy it away later( second action)
If you multiply that by all the things you do in a day it creates far more work -double in fact so no wonder the messy people feel overwhelmed and exhausted.

I couldn't care less if someone else's house is a mess so no SHOULD from me but to say I must do sooooo much tidying is untrue

You say you’re not “running around tidying all day” but you are. When you do the dishes as you make them instead of all at once at the end of the day, that’s cleaning/tidying.

When your family members clean up after themselves, that’s them cleaning/tidying throughout the day (some people’s family members don’t do that, so they have to pick up after them instead. In my case, for example, if I were to have DD pick up her toys, it would take all day of me supervising her and keeping her on task to get it done; it’s faster to give her a few jobs/items to put away and do the rest myself, and I assume it’ll be like that until she’s older and better able to focus.)

When you use items in your house and put them back immediately after use, that’s cleaning/tidying. Doing it “as you go” instead of in bursts doesn’t make less work; you just don’t recognize it as work because you are a “tidy person.” It’s still going to feel like a lot of work that requires conscious effort for “untidy people.”

I think it can be really discouraging for “untidy people” to hear other people making light of the work they do throughout the day. It’s easy to think “This is so hard. I’ll just never be like them. I should give up,” rather than “Being ‘like them’ requires expending more time and effort on tidying than I currently do. I just have to accept that and keep pushing on.” It’s important to be honest about it.

Well generally you wouldn’t have all of those things at once, all of the time, but the point is, most people come in with things in their hands, and hands must be empty before coats can be removed. Whether those things are in bags that make them easier to carry or not, they still need to be dealt with when you bring them in.

I do eat in my car and I like it that way, but that means cleaning up after myself and DD. (Leftover food on wrappers and in trash bags smells if you leave it for a week in the hot car. Not to mention the possibility of rodents and ants taking residence in various parts of the vehicle.) I do have dogs (three of them), and we only have two leashes presently, so they do need to come in. I let DD take toys in the car to help reduce screen time and allow me to get some peace and podcast time in when I’m driving; those need to come in, and sometimes her hands/bags are more full on arrival home than when she left. Her school bag is usually too big for her to carry herself…

The point is, people are different, and I think it can come off as very dismissive and/or out of touch to just repeat “clean as you go and don’t be lazy, then there won’t be so much work to do.” There will always be work to do when you have children and/or pets. It’s a matter of coming to terms with it and figuring out what strategy best for you as an individual.

Toothbrushes downstairs also
and sun cream!

Sun cream is on the windowsill as we walk out the front door. So we see it as we leave the house. That helps.

@RampantIvy . I can completely understand your frustration. It comes down not just to different approaches and limitations but also to responsibility and willingness to take responsibility.

In our house, I am default. We can argue over the rights and wrongs of that, but ultimately if I don't do it, it doesn't get done. If I don't take responsibility for maintaining minimal levels of cleanliness and order, things will spiral out of control. I find this very difficult because I'm not wired in a way which enables me to put effective routines in place and then follow them consistently. But ultimately the buck stops with me. If I leave a teaspoon on the floor or crumbs over the surfaces, they will still be there a week later. And we will live in a house that is making us all feel a bit stressed and grotty, and I will feel that I am letting down my kids. So I do what I can, but I also have to be realistic about my own limitations and about not getting stressed with myself or my kids when I can't manage stuff.

In your house, it sounds like you are default. If others don't do things, they will be left for you to do. And your DH is apparently messing up the work you've already done to achieve a clean and orderly house and then refusing to take responsibility for that and for finding systems that work for him. So I can understand that it's frustrating.

If you're ok with his lack of motivation and you want to work with him to put a system that works for him in place, I'd suggest something like chore cards with pictures on them. Give him 5 chore cards and ask him to work through them, things like "clear kitchen surfaces", "wipe hob", "clean loos", "tidy coat-rack". But really he should be doing this himself.

Yes reducing stress is a big part of it. ‘Just put things back’ doesn’t work for me either.

Funnily enough we did the boxes for sports clothes! That worked quite well. Toothbrushes downstairs also
and sun cream!

We have to work with our brains rather than against them.

@PassOnThat my apologies. I have clearly worded my post rather clumsily because you think I don't want to understand, and you are so wrong.

I want to understand why DH acts as he does. He has asked me to remind him about stuff that needs doing because he just doesn't see that the floor needs vacuuming or deadlines need to be met or a family birthday is imminent. I just don't want to nag, just remind him.

At 73 he just isn't interested in putting his own system into place either.

I guess with the boot on the other foot you must find it hard to get your head around just being able to pick that teaspoon up or put the corkscrew away as soon as you have finished with it.

I agree we need to work out routines and structures that help us. But they will be different to neurotypical people who just tidy as they go.

I agree entirely. For example, "put everything back in its place immediately" doesn't work in my house since we have lots of clutter and lots of stuff that doesn't have a place.

What I do find is that reducing immediate stress saves energy. And that means more energy to sort the underlying problems. So I'm focusing on that right now.

An example - all our drawers and wardrobes need a sort out and a declutter. I can't find anything quickly in them and we have too much stuff. But I don't have the time or energy to sort this problem right now. So I have 5 boxes on the landing - Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I spend some time on Sunday putting everything into those boxes that we'll need for the next week and then just leave them on the landing. So Monday morning, I'm not scrabbling around for pants, socks for everyone and school uniform for the kids. I just pick up the "Monday" box. And I've started putting things into the boxes straight from the clean laundry. I don't bother folding or anything, just chuck things straight in.

Another one - toothbrushes. We're usually in a hurry to get out, but obviously it's really important that the kids' teeth get brushed. I used to forget until we were leaving and then have to hoick everyone upstairs to the bathroom again. Now we have toothbrushes everywhere - upstairs bathroom, by the kitchen sink downstairs and even in the car in case I forget and remember on the way to school. Same with sun cream and hand cream.

School uniform doesn't go into drawers/cupboards anymore. I have a big box that it's all chucked in and taken out as needed (apart from coats/bags). When the holidays come, it is washed and chucked into the box, and then the box goes at the back of the laundry cupboard until it's back to school.

We no longer have clothes all over the floor upstairs. What we have are more boxes - one for each of us, and then towels/sheets. The laundry is sorted by being chucked into the correct box, and then people just take what they need from the boxes.

These methods might not work for others, but they've made things better for me. House is still a mess but we're reducing the immediate stress and I feel less burnt out. But none of this comes easily to me.

You’re completely right @PassOnThat and so many have tried to explain on here and are met with ‘yes but why can’t you just put things away’.

Everything is harder when you have ADHD and it can get exhausting. Women can often spend their lives ‘masking’ which is tiring and creates anxiety. Like many I make sure I don’t drop the ball with my kids or my job. That means systems on systems! But I tend to have nothing left at the end of the day.

If you have a partner with ADHD and are struggling to understand why they can’t just do things or are assuming it’s just plain laziness. There‘s really good account on instagram called ‘ADHD love’ The guy is so kind to his wife and explains things very well.

I agree we need to work out routines and structures that help us. But they will be different to neurotypical people who just tidy as they go.

I have read just about every post because it is interesting and I want to try to understand why DH is so chaotic, but I don't think that I have been able to fully able to understand the why.

But this is it - do you want to understand or do you simply want to continue feeling your way is best and being fed up with your DH because he can't meet your standards? There are a few of us on here who are trying to explain, but there are some posters who are stuck in the "Well, you SHOULD hang the coat up or put the teaspoon away, so I don't understand why you DON'T because you SHOULD" mindset. It's not the concept messy people have trouble with, it's the execution.

I think to people who have a very logical and rational thought process the inability to pick up a teaspoon off the floor, for example, just doesn't make sense. Stepping over it many times and getting more and more anxious is simply irrational and illogical.

But some people, myself included, have thought processes which could be described as 'irrational and illogical', as you term it. Our brains don't work in the same way as yours, that's what I've been trying to say. They often have their own logic or become overwhelmed and stressed and lose the ability to be 'logical' in the way you think of this.

We need to work with our brains, not against them. Things like visual cues, lists, sorting things in a way which is helpful for us and reduces stress etc. But it's very personal and while some things work, other 'systems' become another failed mess.

One thing I do think though is that it's the individual's responsibility to take measures to make things easier for themselves to function and to achieve what they have to achieve. So I wouldn't suggest 'hacks' to you that would help your DH, because ultimately it is him not you who should be trying to put organisational measures in place (visual cues and reminders) so he can successfully pull his weight. There's a bit of sexism at play here as well, in many cases. I've really struggled to put routines in place to make sure my kids are well-cared for, where they need to be on time and have everything they need. I've done it more or less successfully (we're mostly on time and the kids mostly have what they need) because I know that, if I slip up, the kids are the ones who suffer. I am perpetually burnt out managing this with my job and, although we're doing better, the house is still messy. I am kind to myself though, and accept my limitations, because I know I'm trying my best and it's me who will be picking up the pieces for any of my failures. Too many men don't try their best, opt out and still have someone going along behind them picking up the pieces so they never feel the full effects of their failure and have no motivation to do better. I can understand being fed up if you feel that ADHD is being used as an 'excuse' in these situations. For me, it's not an excuse, it's an explanation for why certain approaches work better than others.

because there seems to be an unwillingness to understand that,

I don't think that is the case @PassOnThat . I think to people who have a very logical and rational thought process the inability to pick up a teaspoon off the floor, for example, just doesn't make sense. Stepping over it many times and getting more and more anxious is simply irrational and illogical.

A lot of what has been written on this thread describes DH to a T. A couple of examples - I will put something by the bottom of the stairs to be taken up by the next person who goes past it and he will just go upstairs empty handed. If I open a bottle of wine with a corkscrew I will put the corkscrew back in the drawer and the cork in the bin. He will leave the corkscrew with the cork in it on the worktop.

I have read just about every post because it is interesting and I want to try to understand why DH is so chaotic, but I don't think that I have been able to fully able to understand the why.

I will also add that as he has got older he has got a lot worse. He has been checked for stroke and dementia, and was all clear, but half the time he doesn't listen and seems to be on another planet. He says he needs to make a concerted effort to concentrate to listen these days.

So my question is to anyone that knows (I haven't googled yet) - does ADHD get worse with age?

I am not sure that a lot of the advice the tidy people on this thread can give is particularly useful for us "messies" because there seems to be an unwillingness to understand that, as opened to just being lazy or disorganised, some people are wired differently. Lots of posts saying "I don't understand why people can't do this and that". No, you don't understand, and that's why what you say is interesting but ultimately of limited value. We need to work with what we have, not against ourselves. Routines, for example, are important but they need to be routines that work otherwise for people who are like me, we'll get very excited about having a new routine, spend a lot of time (and possibly money - new boxes etc) on making it happen, and then the new routine falls by the wayside and there's even more clutter in the house. For those of us who have issues with executive function, a lot of the routines on this thread simply won't work without modifications like visual reminders etc.

I'm not sure why people assume untidy = never puts anything away. I am not a tidy person. Despite that I put away the teabag tin and the milk after using them this morning. I put away the bread, butter and chocolate spread after breakfast. I moved the plates from the table to the kitchen. I left my cup on the table because I'll probably use it again soon. I haven't yet emptied the dishwasher of yesterday's dishes because my daughter wanted me to play with her marble run with her (she can't build it by herself yet). I then helped her clear away the marble run before her letting her get out the play food from her kitchen. Then her dad got up from his lie in so I had a quick shower and rushed to the post office before it closed. Did some shopping on the way home, which I of course immediately put away. I've just sat down for 2 minutes but once I've finished typing this I'm off to put on a load of washing before my partner goes in the shower (washing machine is in the bathroom). Then I'll make lunch for myself and my daughter. And there's still the dishwasher waiting for me!! I can also see the clothes horse full of now dry clothes from a couple of days ago, my daughter's colouring pencils and paper, two dolls that I'm not allowed to move because they're sleeping apparently, various letters/bills/papers on the table (not all mine), some paintings my daughter did yesterday that were left out to dry, my daughter's ear protection (doesn't currently have a proper home so is lying on a random surface), partner's cereal bowl and coffee cup are on the table (he ate while I was out), the local free paper that I want to read before putting it with the craft stuff to use for painting, a.cardigan hanging on the back of a dining chair... I won't go on, I'm sure you get the picture.

kitchenbattle,same here .we do have dogs x 2,spare leads in the car,no eating or drinking allowed in it! DH keeps the car pristine. I had 4 DKs, mostly working ft,big garden, lots of animals,lived rurally, only one car. Looking back I did find it hard at times, when my youngest was little. I've been a cleaner,was shocked at the state of some people's homes! One woman used to put coins under the chair legs to see if I had moved the furniture to vacuum and dust properly! My ex H had his own cleaning company,we tried employing people,every one of them was dismissed, not one did a proper job! I am surprised how many people on MN in general seem to have cleaners..I wouldn't want a stranger in my home, especially on seeing how these folk cleaned offices. I have friends where you have to stand up and wait for them to clear a space so you can sit on the sofa, another who changes her bedding DAILY , I think Im comfortably in the middle
Oh, actually Im.in the middle of 2 people who haven't cleaned a window in 14 years!

.

I just wanted to add that having 3 small children is going to make it more difficult to be tidy, both because they add to the entropy and because they have a lot of stuff, and a lot of their stuff is big and incongruous! They also take up your time.

They are at peak messiness, so cut yourself some slack.

Thinking back to that stage, I didn’t have three, so immediately so much easier for me. But a couple of things that helped were

1. getting child involved. Everything must be put away before the next activity starts. Toddlers love to help, and I think it’s easier to get them to take accountability for their own stuff when they are older, than if they get used to mum just doing it all
2. lots of time out of the house. Yes, you have less time to tidy when working, but actually, on reflection, there’s also less time to create mess if your children are at nursery! That may not be applicable as it sounds like you’re still at baby stage, but thinking back, we spent a lot of maternity leave and our free time in the pre-school years out of the house. (Running around the park or the woods also brought energy levels down to manageable once home).
3. having ‘landing zones’ - there was a place for nappy bags etc to sit until I was ready to deal with them.

Sorry quoted wrong person

I also meant to add.
Do you think in school DC would just be allowed to chuck their stuff everywhere?
No of course not.
It's one of the first things they learn
Put your stuff on your peg

Good grief @happyLittleAG

“non tidy person” might come in from wherever, be pretty tired, have an armful of stuff from their car, and have their kids demanding things from them (whether or not they repeat, exasperated, to please give them a minute to get in the door.)

And?

We are all tired at the end of the day, with stuff to put away
Children can be demanding but you are the parent.
My reply to " demands" would be to tell them
" hang up your coat, put your shoes and bag away and go wash your hands"
You can have snack/ TV etc when you have done that.
It all sounds like total emotional dysregulation and overwhelm to me
Rushing about dumping stuff here there and everywhere just because DC wants something -what is that teaching them?
Where is the urgency in any of those things that you need to just dump stuff everywhere?

You will probably come back with but my DC has a tantrum etc but actually teaching children to wait, take turns and emotionally regulate is simply part of parenting.

If they need the loo quickly fair enough.

Otherwise no there is absolutely nothing that would mean I needed to carry the coats through the hall to dump them on the sofa.

Rubbish -straight in the bin outside, it wouldn't even enter the house let alone be dumped on a table.
You are creating all this extra work, it's then double the effort to deal with it.

I grew up in a clean but messy home. The reason for this is that both my parents find it difficult to get rid of things; one because they might come in useful, the other for sentimental purposes.

I have three siblings. 2 of us are tidy, and we would both say that it is in reaction to our childhood. However, the other 2 are messy.

The differences that I notice are

1. tidy brother and I know where everything lives, so it’s easy to have clear surfaces and floors. When I am at my other siblings’ houses, there are often things I can’t put away, as there isn’t somewhere to put them, so they just live ‘on the side’.
2. we ‘see’ displaced items and put them away as we go along. For example, if we are going from one room to another room, we’ll just carry the stuff that needs to be moved there with us.
3. we always have to be doing something with our hands. We’re not people who sit still and relax. Sometimes it’s doodling, sometimes it’s just twiddling our fingers, but if there’s something that needs doing, we’ll do it as we’re chatting. It happens at an almost subconscious level.

The above means that there is no need for intentional sessions of tidying, as everything is put away as the day goes on.

My tidy brother is almost freakishly clean, but I would say that the rest of us are actually at a similar level of cleanliness. In fact, I’m pretty slovenly in some ways - I don’t dust regularly or clean skirting boards. I don’t iron clothes. My house just looks tidier as there is no clutter as everything is put away.

Wow! Well what an absolute saint you are!
Some of us don't have the time to keep "on top of it every day",or the money for a full professional clean. Absolutely ridiculous comment, even by MN standards.
OP, I feel you; the thing I think you need to remember, is that there's a difference between "dirty" and "messy". Messy is unavoidable,especially when you have children; Dirty is not.

I'm a naturally clean tidy person but I also find keeping on top of things a bit overwhelming because I grew up in a messy, dirty home and have had to learn how to keep things clean and tidy as an adult. My DH is also quite untidy by nature and does a bit of a half-hearted job with cleaning (e.g. it's his job to do a weekly deep-clean of the kitchen but he routinely forgets to clean the oven or wipe the kettle/microwave/cupboard doors down). So our house is dirtier than I'd like but generally not too messy thanks to a couple of habits I have that I think help keep things relatively tidy - I routinely put things away where they belong and am teaching the DC (age 5 &2.5) to do the same (e.g. they hang up their coats and put away shoes, we stop playing 5 mins before bedtime to put toys away, they know to put wrappers/banana peels etc in the bin). I will also be generally tidying surfaces etc a bit while they're playing. I don't really sit down to relax until after they're in bed. Also, having a robot vacuum helps keep the floors tolerable - and forces me to pick stuff up off the floor!

ok I just had the realisation that the way I am also applies to the car 🤣Trash (food wrappers, if you eat in your car,- no I don’t eat in the car.
papers, paper or plastic bags, etc- I have a bin in my car that gets emptied once a week gym clothes- these would be in a bag
dog leashes,- I don’t have a dog but i imagine would always keep a leash in the car (and a second in the house)
children’s toys and school bags- the dc can carry those themselves
laptop, charging cords, headphones - all in one bag that would go on my shoulder
books- possibly
suitcases - only when returning from holiday groceries- in bags so one or two at a time, If dc are with me then they help.
other purchases- possibly

but no I wouldn’t have ALL that stuff at once getting out of the car.

Well, I didn’t specify gender. But assuming “they” is a wife and DP is a husband in this scenario, let’s he gets home from after her, having worked later, and takes over childcare (bathing + bedtime routines) Then I suppose he could help with tidying, but perhaps they have agreed that it’s her responsibility because he works longer hours and contributes more to the family financially. Maybe he handles the “life admin” after the DC are asleep. Or perhaps he just wants to relax and spend time with his wife, too.

On weekends, maybe he does things like the lawn and car maintenance, home repair/improvement tasks. He can assist with the general cleaning, pet care, child care, shopping, food prep, and whatnot. However they best share the mutual responsibilities.