To be fuming DH left our 8yo to supervise the baby while he mowed the lawn??

A 16 month old us a toddler, not a small baby

But I think that's the point most people are making

An 8 year old should know better than to draw all over their younger siblings. If this one didn't then there may be something that needs checking. And if there is something with them then they aren't able to be left alone with their siblings, even for Mum to shower

I think it's fair to be open minded that I could be anybody, pretending to be a social worker. I respect your view and am not responding to challenge that. I also do not usually post on here however find it useful to develop my understanding of different perspectives in relation to parenting. I am also on leave right now so having a scroll and some extra time on my hands.

As many people have mentioned, all 8 year olds are different due to numerous factors, and of course parental judgement of their child will lead decision making in these situations which is why the law on leaving children at home alone is ambiguous. I mention the law regarding criminal responsibility as it provided some context regarding the expected legal age in which children can be held accountable for harming others which is 10 and over and this child was 8.

My point was, if you put personal views and experiences aside, regardless of parental judgement, if a serious accident happens to a child, in the UK, the responsibility will always fall on the adult who was supposed to be supervising the child and made the judgement that it was safe to leave them alone.

Here is a very useful quiz on the NSPCC website to help parents to determine if it's safe to leave a child alone if they feel unsure:

www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/in-the-home/home-alone/home-alone-quiz/?_ga=1.93651739.740386347.1433258561

A 16 month old child is at the prime age for having accidents as they explore the world, become steady on their feet and lack any understanding of danger awareness. This only lasts for a couple of years so as much as it is full on, it won't be forever.

I have worked with a number of great parents (similar age group of children who have sustained significant injuries) and have seriously regretted making similar decisions as mentioned in this post, not due to intentional neglect but a lack of consideration of the consequences. Lots of parents are not exposed to the variety of accidents that children of this age can experience unless it has happened to them, somebody that they know or work in a front line services.

If there is a main carer, who is looking after two children most of the time then they will work out a way of doing basic things like going to the toilet and having a quick shower whilst the children are in ear shot ect as part of the daily routine as that is a part of parenting, and accidents cannot always be avoided and are a part of life. However in this situation, if anything did happen to the child, would the Dad have heard the children over the noise of the lawn mower and would he be able to justify that the decision to leave them alone was necessary and proportionate if anything happened.

That will be my final message but I just wanted to share some insight that I thought may be helpful, and possibly save some avoidable accidents toward young children in the future based on my experiences in my role, and hindsight that parents in real situations wish that they had known sooner. You rarely hear about these situations in the media.

I don't understand people's comments. If everyone is "more concerned" about the 8 year old, why were they left in charge of a baby? They didn't change in a second, mum probably (rightfully) felt they weren't responsible enough to be unsupervised with a baby.

Also just because we all were left in charge of babies doesn't mean it was right then, or now. They are a child and if anything went wrong they would have to live with that for the rest of their life. I walked myself to school at 5, streets away, are you suggesting you would let your little ones do that too? No, you're not.

Parents are responsible for children's welfare, that includes 8 year olds.

Honestly, I don't see you having a shower as different if we are talking about similar time.

Social workers don't always think the same way for a start, anyone commenting on here could be a social worker who has agreed that OP is overreacting (and PP could be claiming anything because this is anon and there's no way to know)

There's a reason there isn't a legal age where children can be left alone. It's because it's down to parents to make decisions based on the child (although you're insistent that was can't blame the child, even though the child's behaviour is a concern)

Depends on the child I guess. My middle son was 8 when my youngest was born and he was very good with him, would sit holding him and reading to him etc. But my youngest is now 8 and sometimes does very silly things and I have to tell him off. He sometimes does stuff like a toddler would and can't tell me why just says sorry mum.

Has anyone read the advice from the social worker?

You know, the professional from the organisation that you'd all insist needs to visit if this had ended badly, due to dad's neglect.

Yesterday 22.37

If posters haven't even read it or are ignoring it, then I'm even more concerned about the safety of everyone's DC...

It's exactly the same ! You're happy to leave her supervising while you swan off to the shower which also isn't urgent and could easily wait until bedtime but your dh does it and you flip your lid ? Double standards much !!

I have 8 & 9 yos they are very capable of keeping an eye on their 2 younger brothers for a few minutes they know to shout/come get me if they need me and they definitely know better than to draw on their little brothers your dd is old enough to know better and it most definitely IS her fault so id be more concerned about that !

I think the big difference here OP, is that even when you leave the children unsupervised because you are in another room getting washed or doing chores, you are still very aware of them and what they are, or could be, doing. Your ears are always attuned to the noise they are or aren't making and you can instantly detect when, for example, a friendly game threatens to turn into a nasty spat. I think most mothers are like this and it's part of the never-ending background noise in our brains that goes along the lines of: "Buy birthday card and present on the way home for party on Saturday! Opticians appointment! Half term in three weeks - book holiday club! Bake fucking cake for school cake sale! Or should I buy one instead? Buy cake! Ring Mum back! New school trousers! Cancel Smear test and rebook! Car Insurance renewal! etc. etc. etc. All while we are also working, collecting children, making dinner and sorting out the washing.

Men, on the other hand, are perfectly capable of letting the 18 month old DD that they are supposed to be looking after, go into the kitchen and empty packets of flour and sugar all over the kitchen floor, play in it and wipe her floury sticky hands over every wall in the house, while they are engrossed in a game of Rugby on the TV! I really feel your pain and understand your anger.

And now you'll think twice - maybe three or four times? before you leave him to look after his children by himself.

Job done.

what your thinking is a problem isnt the actual problem. an 8 year old should be able to keep an eye on the baby for 15 or so mins. drawing all over the baby, bit annoying but hey its a funny story to tell in a few years when there older.

The problem with this thread is that the op only detailed her child is 8 and the comments have been based on that. But I teach 8 year olds (hundreds because I go from school to school specialist subject) and I don’t know a single one who would think drawing on a toddler is helpful. I would put that at development age of 4.

so I think going forward, you and your dh should make decisions only based on your own dd and how she’s developing, not on what is ‘normal’ for an 8yo.

Another mum blaming, child questioning post.

Did you read the social worker's post?
Yesterday 22.37

I agree that he shouldn't have gone out mowing the lawn leaving the 8 year old in charge, but from your original post you said you 'popped to the shop earlier, only meant to be ten mins' so was the issue that he wanted to mow the lawn, you said you wouldn't be long but actually took a lot longer than you said and he therefore wanted to get going on the job he had already said he wanted to do?

I agree with previous posters that the 8 year olds behaviour is strange and I would want to know why they felt that was ok.
I agree that the shower is a similar situation, you say you have the door open and can hear, but what if the 8 year old closes another door or knows to be quiet - they could just as easily draw on their sibling during this time.. especially if the toddler thinks its a game and is funny. You might hear them laughing and think they are playing nice together but actually the 8 year old could be up to more mischief or encouraging the little one to do something naughty to get them in trouble.

What is the relationship usually like between the children?

Hrft, if he left them doing an activity, eg playing with toys and they could get out to call Dad, then maybe reasonable.

If he just walked off and left them to do their own thing, or for 8 year old to entertain toddler, not reasonable, not sensible and not advisable. Same goes if they couldn't get out to him bc doors locked high gates etc.

I was wondering how SS would view this.
I'm glad you posted and I'm sure OP will be too.

I agree, it WAS negligent.
And unfair on the young girl to pass his responsibility onto her.

I am a social worker and do not think that you are being unreasonable. A 16 month old is prone to accidents due to their stage of development at that age and needs to be supervised by an adult. An 8 year old and a 16 month old can be together in a room for a short period of time, it's realistic and part of life however at no point is an 8 year old responsible for keeping a toddler safe for a period of time without an adult in ear shot. I have dealt with multiple referrals over the last 8 years in practice with young children of this age who have sustained significant accidental injuries due to a lack adult supervision. Examples include drinking diffuser liquid, multiple head injuries from falling from sofa, pulling furniture down onto them, being intentionally injured by an older sibling- the list goes on. The responsibility in these situations is always on the adult.

In summary, it's just not worth it. If it was an emergency situation it could have been proportionate and justified however to mow the lawn, he should have just waited for 15 minutes to until you came back. The amount of blame placed on your 8 year old whose brain has not fully developed in relation to consequential thinking is really sad to hear from so many adults.

Not directly linked but for context- there is a reason, backed by research and evidence as to why the age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old above in the uk and 12 in Ireland.

When DS1 was 6, DS2 sucked a bottle top into his mouth and would have choked if DS1 hadn’t noticed and grabbed it out of his mouth. I think younger kids are pretty responsible when you trust them.

I don’t think it’s that bad. How big is the lawn??

I would be really worried with an eight year old writing on another person. . Where would the idea come from as teachers at school do not write on the children.

I think YABU. I'm sure your DH told your 8yo to immediately come to the backdoor if there was any problem. An 8 yo should be capable of doing just that. Your young daughter is a big sister for 16 months now, has seen the baby grow , has played with her sibling numerous times. And this time what she did, p'aying, only you were gone for 15 minutes bjt dad was in shouting distance. I don't really see a problem here.

The idea is to minimise unsupervised time by limiting it to more essential activities, and taking care to maintain awareness by earshot etc. OP points this out - surely you can't miss it. DH withdrew his attention completely for a non-essential task, which was negligent.

But you’ve said you go for a shower and leave them.