Albu to expect my husband to earn more?

I think you need to leave him. He sounds like a selfish, irresponsible child.

My mother once said something that attracts you to your spouse early on may be something that you also end up disliking about them long term. Creative field, as in artist? (I was dating one) He was wildly creative, secretive, full of charisma and I was besotted. He also proved to be unreliable, always broke, and given to fits of melancholy, the other side of his ‘creative’ personality.
You said leaving wasn’t an option but it sounds like this is the best it’s going to get.

The issue is lying about the work and the debt. I assume you are in a more expensive part of the country if your 60k income isn’t covering the bills. Perhaps he would be better getting a full time minimum wage job and doing his creative work as a side hustle.

@DesparatePragmatistI've had too as I have a lazy husband.. so my business has had to carry the family. Oh that’s so hard and yes he should have retrained. I’m off to do a degree in radiography, still tech and still images but with a pile of humans involved and finally doing something that makes a difference. Take care and kick him up the bum!!

Yanbu. These sorts of hobby "businesses" are horribly self indulgent.

The only time its acceptable to bring in less might be in the early years of building up a business, but he's been at it 20 years, he needs to suck it up and financially support himself and stop leeching off the family pot.

I’ve always earned a lot more than my husband even when I was part time I earned more than he did full time. Mine works full time and works hard though just not in a well paid industry. I’m in my early 50s and kids all but grown up and it’s only in the last few years I’d say we were financially comfortable. It’s hard when kids are young for sure. Did I feel resentful when my kids were younger that we didn’t have more money and wished I’d married someone who earned better, yes I did sometimes. But as I said, at least mine worked hard. In your shoes it’s less the income that’s an issue but more the lying and not seemingly being arsed to improve

He wouldn’t survive as a single man behaving like that. Has he ever supported himself?

He knows you think leaving is not an option.

OP sorry for the derail! I see lots of PP expressing the view that he's lazy, onto a good thing and won't change. My experience with my DH is much more can't change than won't change. This makes me somewhat more understanding, although still frustrated and resentful. . Only you will know which one is true for your DH, which will probably determine what you decide to do next.

I'm so grateful for this insight. He's actually late 50s... I've been suggesting career change /retraining for years (he could have done multiple degrees in the time I've been suggesting it) but I'm not credible to him as I don't know the industry, and his confidence is the huge barrier, he just sticks like glue to what he knows. I dont even know what he'd move into at this stage. Good luck with your move, it sounds like you'll have exactly the opposite experience

Divorce him. He’s extremely selfish and untrustworthy - the lies and debt, which will drag you down with him too.

He's maybe stayed too long in the dying area of print and is potentially in his late 40s early 50s in which case he will be way better off career changing. It’s a horrid ageist industry as a talented 25 year old can do his role, so yes he will be really struggling to pick up well paid work, and I’m afraid the degree vs college really does make a difference for the larger roles.

Im 50 and I’m career changing even though I run a branding agency, I’m merging and walking away as I know I’ll struggle to keep up in my 60s and I want and need to work to retirement.

That's very helpful, thank you @reversegear . He's somewhere in the middle, no degree but did a college qualification in graphic design, specialised in print although he can do some online / ppt work. He's not competing for the creative director levels as he's never done that much in-house - he ran his own outfit with family members for years. But he seems to have dwindled and slid down the levels to taking worse and worse jobs rather than the solid ones you're talking about. It's so helpful to know they do still exist, and makes me think the support he needs is as much with confidence and salesmanship as anything else.

I hope OP doesn’t mind, hopefully I can help, so yes there is work going to India etc but that’s always been the case, it’s not a new thing that the industry is fairly price driven, but big brands will pay well for quality creative work and people.

But if your DH has a degree, a good solid 10- 15+ years in decent branding agency’s, London or solid client work for large brands and is naturally talented, friendly and hard working then he really could earn upwards of 80k+ if he’s worked up to senior roles or creative director level then I’d expect 65-100k depending on location. Most of my freelancers across all sectors push 50k minimum, that’s animators, web developers etc.

if he’s done an 8 week course in design online and goes into website design then yes he’s right and is competing with the same level and won’t earn much at all.

i hope that helps 🥴

Right now he's got it all his own way, hasn't he? Of course he doesn't want to shift his arse and go get a fucking job. That would mean behaving like a responsible adult, which is clearly beyond him.

I think it’s terrible when one person of the union is quite content for the other person to carry them financially and pay for the vast majority of living costs, particularly with children. Selfish.

Whatever he does “creatively” he can surely do as a hobby on the side, while bringing in a proper and consistent wage with another job.

Yes it’s sad that the creative industry doesn’t always bring home the bacon, but he’s got a nerve.

What did he retrain as and how much did it cost to retrain please?

This. You'd be far far happier without all this stress and his lies

if he’s graphic designer then I’m afraid he’s feeding you a line or isn’t very good and he should be able to pull a minimum of 50k billing out at 45pm, doing in-house co tracts at £350 a day etc.

@reversegear I'm very interested in this. My DHs main field was graphic design, which he moved out of after not being able to manage to pull in half of what you're citing, saying all the freelance work was going to low fee competitors in India and further east. Is there a particular skills set you would associate with bringing in £50k? Eg web design, rather than print?

Trying to work out if I too have been fed a line - hope you don't mind, OP!

I think the lying is the issue really, and not holding down a steady job.

My husband has a creative industries job in a small music venue and doesn't make loads of money, but I knew that when I married him and I have much more scope to progress in my career than he does. He does most of the housework and is really handy with DIY, so his contributions to our marriage go beyond financial as well. He could make a lot more doing freelance, but he values the stability of a steady creative job which I can't argue with. There are times where I wish he had greater earning potential, but it isn't everything and he works incredibly hard at what he does.

I think you need to have a serious talk with your husband about how the lying is affecting you, and how he needs to show willing to improve things. You need to get him to understand it could lead to you divorcing him; it might be a wake up call for him.

OP, I have every sympathy. I'm in a similar situation and it's really hard - it would be easier if it was a flat-out refusal to work, which could be challenged; but when it's hours and resources going into something that might deliver, but never quite does, its so much harder.

In my case the pill is sweetened by DH doing a fair bit round the house, even though he doesn't contribute much if anything financially. We've had several big talks over the years, with me being clear about the minimum contribution I needed, offering to help think through options, support him while retraining, etc. This has led to 3 career changes (always within self-employed and creative parameters) but no change in income level.

I think as PPs have said, what i, and you, are seeing is the reality of a person, rather than the consequence of a career choice. In my case, I dont think its necessarily laziness or low commitment, DH would love to support more. But he hasn't got the skills to work within a company (got made redundant in his 20s and self-employed ever since) which means he hasn't benefited from all the wider training and development you get in-house, hasn't invested himself and has got older, left behind/confidence hit; not competitive, can't get back in either as an employee or a freelancer.

Wjy is leaving him not an option? What does he bring in to your life?
He needa to grow up and atart contributing more to sustain his family. Be tried his band at being self employed and that hasn’t worked out. So now he needs to do something else.

YANBU as it sounds like you are the main earner but also do all the organising & making sure the kids are ok. Even with a minimum wage job he would have around £450/week & could contribute around £1000/month and still have some personal spends left over. It sounds like his current job doesn’t create enough income for him to do this & so is presumably below average minimum wage for the month.

It would probably be easier to budget if he wasn’t around - he sounds like an extra teenage that needs supporting.