People who give up on life

I feel like often much more is expected of girls and women contrary to what is often said. I was expected to help my mum and dad around the house more than my brothers, to just know what needed doing or how to act. I was expected to look right, behave perfectly, get good results in school and be independent none of which was expected of my brothers. I was not to talk about any issues or problems I might be having so as not to be a drain on my parents but my Mum would always make a huge point of being their for my brothers because boys don't open up enough. I'd cook for my parents a few nights a week but be reprimanded for not having everything ready and spotless when my parents got home while my brothers would be praised for microwaving themselves a pizza. I'd be expected to be wise and self sufficient while my older brothers would get lifts everywhere because it's boys who get attacked.

To be honest though growing up it felt harsh and unfair but I went to a good university at 18, got a first and never moved back home. I was indeed self sufficient and knew how to run my life at that age while my brothers still struggle into their 40's, not one of them completed university and only one is married although its touch and go at the moment.

Perhaps we need to be harder on boys?

I suppose that’s true of women too, some people are just a bit unrealistic when searching for a partner. Very rarely do we find someone absolutely perfect. We all have flaws.

If he was really unhappy, or lonely, I think he’d probably come to this realisation himself. But his brother can’t worry about it, there’s only so much encouragement and help he can offer without being overbearing. I’m sure the guy knows that he’ll be alone when his brother moves away, and accepts that it’s the result of his choices.

Oh I know you weren’t being nasty Minty :)

I just didn’t think you or your friends were the people this thread were aimed at discussing. Certainly not those people who’ve had a fulfilling life, a job, friends, a partner… one of my close relatives has never had any of these things, describes her life as pointless and tells me she wasted it. Which is very sad, and it’s worth wondering what might have changed things for her. If she was happy with her life and choices - and many people are, they’re entitled to live their lives as they choose! - there’s no problem. But some people feel trapped and ashamed and would like their lives to be different. The older you get, the more difficult it becomes.

I know a man like this, A is mid 50's never married never had a girlfriend, I suspect he never had sex either. He has a job, own home but lives with parents most of the time. He is handsome and goes to the gym but all the women his brother tried to introduce him are never enough, his brother ( who is my friend) doesn't bother anymore and he has his own family to look after. same with dating apps, A never answer to any women in there he complains they are ugly, a bit overweight, too old, too young, smoke etc.. never give them the opportunityto have a first date and get to know each other( at least is what A's brother told me)

He might not end homeless as OP friends but he will end alone when his parents die, his only relative will be his brother but he is moving to Australia.. I think some men end alone because they are too picky

I know l was not being nasty smallpinecone , gently , l have a friend who never got married he had a partner for 20 years and nursed his mum who had cancer she passed so sue his partner also passed mid 40s yes they had his parents house ,the house is so clean you feel like taking shoes and socks off . Where l live near oxford we have professor s and so dirty um ,

The only guy I know like this ("Sam") is a pothead & simply doesn't care.
He lives with elderly father, recently diagnosed with dementia, and leaches off of his dad or other relatives what he can.

Sam does have "friends" or should we call them "associates".

Glad Sam is not my relative.

One of my DSs may never leave home. He works in a job that involves a lot of customer service so does have social skills he can tap into. He's not ashamed, but lacks drive for sure. Also not into drugs so I can be grateful.

I think women do it slightly differently, but I know a few who fit exactly the same description - except that it is husbands they depend on not parents. So I suspect that there is the same broad level of "some people" who simply don't become independant but they do it in different ways. In a sense, men who depend on others are more obvious because they don't fit any social norm. Whereas women who do the same thing are "carers" or "wife and mother", and we have social norms for them that enables them to stay under the radar of being "odd".

She’s not expecting anything, just making a statement🙄

Then there is this view that men have that women become undesirable or over the hill after 30 when in fact we enjoy relationships and bonds with children and still take pride in our appearance, homes, social lives, self-development well into our 70s if we are single. It's men who literally fester and become quite disgusting once they hit 30 if they're unattached, and even if they are attached. I have also noticed women not wanting to have sex with their partners after a certain number of years together.

Why can’t we develop perpetual sperm banks, perfect in utero sex selection, and just phase men out of existence?

The poster said some men - not all men. Why are you taking it personally?

This is nothing new there have always been people like this. People are shy, flawed, not everyone copes with life as much as others. We nowadays think it’s weird to rely on family or community for support. We think everyone should be perfectly socialble and clever and be able to cope well with modern life. But everyone is different and makes different choices in life. I find it weird that nowadays everyone has to be diagnosed with something if are just a bit different .

Yes, I know a few like this. I have a relative who never moved out of his parents’ home and he’s now nearly 70. His father died last year and now the house, which has long been in disrepair because it was never maintained, has to be sold, so his siblings can get their share. It’s all very difficult. I have another friend who’s brother just refused to move out after his mum died and even after the house had been sold. Relatives had to change the locks in the end and offered to help find him a flat to rent and to sign on for relevant benefits. The guy has never claimed any benefits or had any income or job and won’t get a state pension. He refused all offers of help and spent his inheritance on living in a hotel.

She said a lot of men NOT all of men...

Um ,l am mid 70 s nursed my wife for 5 years with vascular dimentia she passed in feb 25 and kept the bungalow and garden nice and clean and tidy , dust ,hoover, shower daily ,shave and still have many friends .so we are all the same

@XDownwiththissortofthingX I'm really glad you've made the contributions you have in this thread because I think your perspective on this is important and it was something I had missed initially. I completely agree that there is a danger of imposing standards for 'normality' that don't work for a lot of people. That's why when social workers assess people's needs they are supposed to focus on what the individual actually wants out of life and what their personal normal / ideal look like.

That said I also think there can be difficulty in working out what is 'normal' for someone because it reflects their personality m, their values, their deep-seated preferences, and what is 'normal' for someone because life has denied them opportunities or because their mental health has taken them in a direction that leads to coping mechanisms that cause them problems. For example I've worked with people who say they don't care about their homes being clean (and indeed have worked with people whose hoarding is so bad you can hardly move in their home and it presents a serious hygiene and health and safety issue). Sometimes there is a history of poverty or trauma or bereavement or just lack of practical living skills which seems to have had a big bearing on how the situation developed. I've worked with people who say they only want one small meal a day and don't care about nutrition but are having terrible health problems as a result; with people who don't want to wash but are sad that they are lonely and don't get why people won't go out with them; who say they don't need friends or jobs or hobbies but then seem to be incredibly depressed and have no sense of purpose in life. So many people are also so low in confidence and so suspicious of others (often understandably based on horrible life experiences) that any sort of change feels too difficult and too risky. Not all 'normal' conventions are right for everyone but equally I suspect some of them are norms for a reason: without them it is harder to function, harder to live well, harder to find love.

The few men I know like this have mild learning difficulties and / or undiagnosed autism. It's hard because by the time they reach their fifties plus it's very difficult for them to initiate change without family members or professionals getting them help.

I have a cousin who is 19 this year and I fear this could be his future. His mother has infantilized him and his siblings so I fear they will be the same. He has just finished school and did well in his final exams but is doing nothing now but sitting at home everyday. His mother said he is "taking a year out" but to me that means someone is travelling, working etc. He doesn't need to go to University but I would love to see him even get a job. Also not learning to drive so still relying on parents for everything. He doesn't have any friends. I think it is so sad as he will see his peers moving on with their lives. He definitely has some element of anxiety/social anxiety and has a DS that has every sign of autism. Years ago when I could see they were struggling, I bought it up with their mother but was told she didn't want labels on them.

I was the opposite I left home at 17 and couldn't wait to do so. My life is by no means perfect but I am a functioning adult with a lot of life experience.

It does, atleast they get to keep the house all to their selves

Yes and I don’t think this is a situation siblings could ‘rescue’ him from anyway tbh

I am not sure this is an introvert / extrovert issue.
I know many people who could be described as introverts and do not have lots of friends in a classic sense. But they do have hobbies, employment and interests.
I have met men in the situation OP describes. And wome. There is a family element, a legacy perhaps of some trauma or difficulty which causes a family to look inwards. The world is cruel and it is understandable that people look inwards to their own family / children to seek safety.
I think the roots of support for all of us begins in childhood. When that period of opportunity has passed and it is an older adult that needs support there are still possibilities. Breaking down isolation is possible with the right effort.

The communities we live in tend to be focused on capitalist / consumerist ideas of what is 'achievement ' or the 'good life'. We all have a responsibility to ourselves and each other to challenge that and to try and be more inclusive. No wonder people get marginalised and develop mental health problems. It is an us problem not an individual tragedy.

My son is only 10 but it's one of my (many) worries for his future as he is autisticand many thingsare difficultfor him on an everyday basis. I want him to live a full and independent life (as much as possible).

If I manage to live as long as the life expectancy predicts for a woman in the UK, he'll only be 46 when I go. In his prime,and I hope with a family of his own or in a loving relationship with someone.

While I fully intend to live longer than this, I can't get a guarantee on that!

It's a worry.

I think a lot of men let themselves go.
I’m not talking about not being completely into style and fashion or spending hours on grooming, just basic things.
Lots of older, single men live in squalor. They don’t clean their house or appear to take any pride in how they live.
The look like extras in zombie films, then moan that women refuse to take any interest in them. They are obese and scruffy, with zero social skills.

It almost seems better if they are an only child, as they will hopefully never have to leave the family home.

Is he an only child?

My friend is like this.
He is 47 and lives at home with his mother. He still lives in his old childhood bedroom.
He’s definitely undiagnosed autistic, he does work but isn’t interested in a relationship. His mum does everything for him - including washing and cooking.
When she is no longer around, he will definitely struggle. He is completely reliant on her.