AIBU to think children should get free dental treatment

Exactly , the average amount spent per person treated per year on NHS dentistry, including patient payments is £36! You couldn't get a plumber out for that , a garage would laugh at you.

@Lollygaggle Quite, £36 wouldn’t cover any other types of service nowadays (plumbing, electrical, mechanical) so how could it possible cover dental services?!

To bring back “free” dental care for children, it’s got to be paid for somehow, presumably through taxation. Dental practices have to pay overheads and salaries like any other business.

It's also not true , because

a the rate of private school entrants is now around 16% and dropping and more importantly

B no matter what school you went to the NHS does not pay enough to cover surgery costs. In the past private subsidised NHS but this is no longer financially possible.

Two friends have recently given up their NHS contracts because last year they both lost a 6 figure sum on it.

New graduates are graduating with £80,000 to £100,000 debt and with registration , indemnity student loans etc 50% of what they earn goes straight away. They can't afford courses , equipment etc to progress and certainly will find it very hard to ever be able to buy into a practice. With this and the climate of.litigation in the UK many give up clinical.practice or move abroad.

Schooling/background makes no difference if the government won't even pay enough to cover costs.

I must be lucky. My dentist is private but my son has free treatment. He had a brace two years ago and had to have five teeth taken out, four molars and a stubborn baby tooth and that was free. South Wales valleys if that makes any difference.
I had his teeth cleaned after the brace came off and that was £40 as it wasn’t covered by NHS treatment

Have you not seen ones with silver points on x-rays? They’ll be roughly that old

That’s terrible

Unfortunately new dental contracts coming in England and Wales are prioritising people who have not been in for years and have problems. These patients need a lot of work, have high failure rates ( 40% of new NHS dental toothache patients fail to turn up and dentists are not paid for missed appointments).

Therefore many practices that have kept on small NHS contracts are getting rid of them as they cannot afford to see a large cohort of patients with massive dental needs, get them healthy, then see the next cohort of people with problems. There is no more money going into NHS dentistry, the government has said this, so they are prioritising emergency access, which would be fine if it was funded but it isn't.

My practice does the kids on NHS if parent(s) are paying - I thought that was quite common? Perhaps we’re very lucky.

The vast majority of students who study dentistry in the UK come from state schools. Not everything can be blamed on private schools. The main competition is from other state school pupils. Why do you think lots of state school parents don’t pay for private tuition? Many of my colleagues tutor state school pupils.

My son had 4 teeth removed via an nhs dentist prior to braces
in his case his teeth were so misaligned that it was beyond cosmetic.
a year on they are looking a lot better and we are so grateful. He has just turned 18

50 years! Thank you for sharing, that’s very interesting. Would like to see this myself sometime.

Oops should have said 40 years old ! Making myself even more ancient than I am

In almost forty years in the same practice you see what works and what doesn't.

Root fillings on uncomplicated teeth in good mouths can last really well. I have one on an upper 6 that's now over 50 years old (bruxing damage during a levels)

Published then but using figures from 2012/ 2013. As I said figures have dropped since then and continue to drop so are around 16% now.

But none of this impacts the fact that most NHS treatments lose a practice money

And dependant on pt’s dental hygiene, ongoing care, type of crown, pt’s age, location etc. I haven’t personally seen any last as long as you have.

Agreed. No where near me takes on nhs adults (hasn’t for 10 years) but they all take on nhs children

It was published in 2023 the one I looked at the other year, written 2021, looking at applicants for medicine/dentistry against ethnicity and background, and your odds of getting an offer.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/eje.12914

Nevertheless, you're right that the NHS dentistry is shocking with no way near enough money being allocated, which is why it's not surprising that NHS dentists gain expertise then go private. Mine has just gone private.

Root treatments can last much longer than that. Some I have done are still going strong at 35 plus years and I have seen 60 year old root treatments lasting. It depends on how complicated root filling is, how much infection and how much tooth left. At the moment a good root filled tooth has a longer lifespan than an implant.

Root canals don’t last forever, ten years or so. And considering how expensive root canal treatment is, and the failure rate, maybe having them extracted is the better option.

Exactly , the average amount spent per person treated per year on NHS dentistry, including patient payments is £36! You couldn't get a plumber out for that , a garage would laugh at you .

Yet for £36 a year per person treated a qualified dental surgeon with the aid of qualified nurses, therapists and dental technicians, will carry out microsurgery in your mouth.

In no other area of health are practitioners expected to personally pay for people's treatment.

Private dentists would happily treat children for free if the government paid them enough to do so.
My dentist stopped as it was actually costing them money to treat my child.
Don’t blame dentists. Blame the government (again!)

I agree.

We do have an NHS dentist - she is better than nothing, and it's great to have access to NHS price fillings but her version of treatment is to try a filling that she is sure will fail then yank the problem tooth when really it needed a root canal. I've lost 3 since pregnancy. I'm actually considering doing a monthly payment plan elsewhere.

100%, yes. The whole NHS dentist situation is completely ridiculous nowadays and needs a whole revamp, because for now it’s complete luck of the draw if you have an NHS dentist or not. I think all children should get free dentistry, and all adults should have to pay, but not the crazy prices that there are now. (I say this as an adult with an NHS dentist space).

@Lollygaggle- I understand dentistry is expensive - I’m not blaming the dentists, I do blame the government for not putting more into it. I’d happily pay higher taxes so everyone can have access to NHS dentists.

100%, yes. The whole NHS dentist situation is completely ridiculous nowadays and needs a whole revamp, because for now it’s complete luck of the draw if you have an NHS dentist or not. I think all children should get free dentistry, and all adults should have to pay, but not the crazy prices that there are now. (I say this as an adult with an NHS dentist space).

YABU. The dental contract is shocking and having worked at Health Education England (as it was), I’m well versed in the ins and outs of it. It would be unaffordable for children to get it free and the prices for adults would have to rise or even the number of NHS places for adults would reduce further. When you think what you’re actually getting for your money, it’s pretty good.