DS doesn't want to come home

I feel very sorry for your son.
He's had 2 'fathers' in his life and both have left.
He's without a good male role model.
But he's also the eldest child and trying to find his feet.

Have you been referred to any support by his school?
Counselling, mentoring etc?

There are mentors available in many town, run by national charities who will support boys like yours, 1:1 support each week, out of school.

Have you investigated anything like this or has his school?

No - the girlfriend does not need to be involved. Woman should bot be made to be the solution in a males shit behaviour

she is uncomfortable. In her workplace. Pisses me off when a woman’s feeling is not the priority

He's too young.
The army is not a dumping ground for lads with problems although many do go there.

He sounds very troubled. Are you able to move closer to your dad? Maybe a fresh start for the whole family might not be a bad idea. Presumably your 15yo daughter is just about to start year 10? 11 year old just going to start secondary school etc… I know it’s not ideal, but from what you’ve written you DS is heading down a dark path and needs drastic intervention.

That's why I suggested they come up with a behaviour contract if he wants to stay.
Maybe the OPs brother and girlfriend could be part of the negotiations.
If this lad wants to stay on the farm he needs to be given strict rules and boundaries.
He breaks them then it's over and he has to go home.
If he is serious about wanting to stay then I think he should be given the chance.

I think you should sit down with your DS and your Dad and have a frank conversation about why he wants to stay there. What makes there better than being with you. It sounds very much to me like an angry little boy who wants attention - any attention, good or bad. What does he want?
Does he feel valued there and not at home?
Does he feel like he comes last at home?
Does he feel you don’t listen?
Did the “bad crowd” make him feel like he had some sort of respect or brotherhood?

You need to understand the why before you can make changes. Really listen, make sure your other children are out the way and he is the priority.
Can you change his school or online school- even if someone has to take your younger children? All your children are equally important and at the moment the eldest needs you.
Can you make time to spend with him alone?
Can you find clubs, join a gym or jobs that would help him feel valued?

When you go in to this, I would suggest you start the conversation on all the things he has done to improve himself and how you are proud of those achievements. Whatever you do, do not start it on a negative or let him think it is better without him. If you do, you will never get him back.

It’s not just about discipline, consequences and boundaries - they need role models and positive experiences as well.

He’s being a mean, nasty little shit because it gives him something he’s missing. Things he should be getting from other sources - sport, useful activity, being successful in something positive. Love and attention.

Is there no alternative provision he can access? Places that do more activity based learning? 14-16 at College where he can do a course?

He’s telling you he doesn’t want to be at home. It doesn’t work for him whatever is happening there currently. If the plant isn’t thriving , don’t blame the plant blame the environment.

She has said her dad cannot have him: it’s understandable- in three weeks he has had attitude, been moody and made a young woman uncomfortable. Her dad is a farmer - he cannot be responsible for severe behaviour problems and run a farm… especially as he cannot be left alone with a female farm worker.

whilst it could potentially be the best place for him - it is not a possibility

She has said her dad cannot have him: it’s understandable- in three weeks he has had attitude, been moody and made a young woman uncomfortable. Her dad is a farmer - he cannot be responsible for severe behaviour problems and run a farm… especially as he cannot be left alone with a female farm worker.

whilst it could potentially be the best place for him - it is not a possibility

Abusive piece of shit who isn't around

But OPs dad has said he can’t stay there so it’s not really up to OP or her son

Sorry if I have missed it but where is DC's dad in this?

Because otherwise a 15 year old lad could find himself alone on the streets in a dangerous situation.

Why should Op's dad take him on though?

Leave him there. It’s for the best. He’s better off, so are your other children and so are you. I certainly wouldn’t want him home under these circumstances.

Perhaps he just doesn’t want to be surrounded by siblings- 3 is a lot, particularly as his youngest came into his life when he was 10. Perhaps it is for the best he stays where he is for the time being?

Leave him there. I really feel for you but sounds like your dad having a farm could be a great outcome for him. Also having a male influence around may help him grow up. I was once a nightmare child (no police record but there could have been and I wasn’t emotionally cruel, but I HATED my mother at that age), same for many of my friends-I felt awful as an adult when my DF told me the only time he had cried as an adult was over me, and that he felt he’d lost control of me completely. I’m sure I read something years ago that said at around about age 13-15, the main influence in life is 90% your peer group and 10% your parents! There probably loads more info online these days, but that was very true for me. Also, I did secretly adore my dad and was very lucky to have a father in my life, he did, however tell me “if you come home pregnant you’re out of this house” and “if you had turned out gay I’d have written you out of my will” 🤣
None of those threats made the slightest difference to how I behaved, (and most of my friends came from decent families) but I just found the wild kids so exciting and cool. I’m sure it’s the same generations over - my own boundaries would be if my kids were cruel to another child, person or an animal; there would be severe consequences.
Luckily my own DC made better peer group choices and they were both very academic. (I also had a ‘last resort’ plan too-if they’d got involved with drugs I’d have actually move them away to the other side of the country if it were an option).
Wishing you all the best 💐

If he is making the girlfriend uncomfortable then of course her safety is paramount, some young boys seem to be.easily influenced to not actually like girls/women do you think this is him? I don't know what I would do to be honest. Can you contact social services or ask school pastoral care,

There is cadets, can be great for some kids.

Ah its so sad, so many mums these days suffering at the hands of arsy teenage sons. As a single parent there's also a lot of them doing it "because they can".

I agree you need him out of the house and away from you as much as the situation allows. Not just all the reasons given, but also to show him that you demand a minimum standard of decency and respect.

If it continues, then sons like this can often go on in life to treat their girlfriends/partners in the same way. Don't enable that, you need to show him it's not acceptable by removing him from the situation, and eventually you could reasonably hope he'll also learn more respect for you from that boundary.

You are not alone in this, I do think it's a growing thing, teenage bullies to their mums, so keep posting if it continues. Don't let it get to your self esteem, there are many of us who have had similar, and you are worth way more.

Fair point well made.

I'm also echoing PPs wrt there is likely a sense of relief that he has got out of the situation he was in with 'the wrong crowd'. He wanted out, but didn't know how to. This way, he can get out of the situation without being held accountable by his old friends - you become the bad guy and he can rail against you because you won't leave him for being uncool.

Again, I didn't say he must definitely join the army even if he doesn't want to. We don't know that he wouldn't want to.

Just a different perspective on one point: when kids/teens laugh or smile when told off or disciplined, it isn't usually because they actually find it funny. It's partly a fear response - it's a nervous response, they know they're in trouble and as little ones they learn that smiling or laughing will soften a parent's attitude, so they keep hold of this coping mechanism without realising why, and without realising it doesn't work anymore.
It's also partly about saving face. He doesn't want you to know that it does indeed bother him, and he'd rather risk the consequences of further punishment than ever admit to being vulnerable.