To think men only respect women they aren’t attracted to?

Not in my experience 🤷‍♀️

I agree

@RetiredMan yes, I definitely see that what men think of as respect is not the same as female respect. I actually think it is because testosterone means men start off assuming they are slightly better than everyone else, regardless. So respect has to be a clear and obvious upgrade, because it is meant to be better than outstanding (as they see themselves). Looking UP.

Women however start off assuming they are either the same or slightly inferior to everyone else on some basic level. Kindness, intelligence, usefulness and friendliness (especially in the face of advsersity) are basically what I think women respect. Strength doesn't mean much on it's own, it's how you use it that counts; whereas men see strength first rather than the motivation and whether it's being used for good or bad. If that makes sense. Men can respect baddies in movies, whereas women would respect someone who made changes for the betterment of a group.

So if we start at such different points, we are unlikely to properly grasp what respect means for men or how to change mindsets about violence against women, etc.

I've seen Youtube video by a (male) psychologist that dealt with exactly this topic. He claimed that respect and sexualisation cannot really co-exist, a man can either respect a woman, or want to fuck her brains out, but not both, at the same time. With a wife, he maybe needs to compartmentalise, so he can put aside the respect when he wants to let loose sexually.

However he also argues there is a difference between men and women in what they mean by respect. What women call "respect" is actually the absence of disrespect, which is not what men mean by respect. For men, you only "respect" someone who is extraordinary, or above you in some way. You don't "respect" an equal.

To put it another way, female "respect" is the human dignity and consideration that maybe everyone is entitled to, by default. Male "respect" is admiration for a superior being, who is exceptional in some way, and so does not apply to most people.

He sees it as problematic that boys are taught by their mothers to "respect" women, as they may misunderstand the message, and think it means they must suppress their sexuality at all times when dealing with women, even in a dating context where that might be highly counter-productive. The reason boys are confused is because in all situations where "respect" in the male sense occurs, sexual interest would be highly inappropriate. For example, respect for a teacher, respect for your boss, respect for a senior officer in the military, respect for a judge, respect for a politician, respect for the dead person at a funeral, etc.

Oh, interesting. I always thought that men were less likely to ignore women they are attracted to. I do not mean disrespect, but I would say if a woman is not atractive, men are more likely to just ignore, even if she is their flipping manager! While if she is attractive, she does get their attention for the very same subject/ comment.

Men are either:

A) The sort who respect women

or

B) The sort who do not respect women

If they are (B) they may be prepared to pretend to respect women to get what they want, but the cracks will soon show.

I find men and women are nicer to me because I’m attractive. Not because they want to fuck me necessarily. They tend to think I’m nice than I am too

Mixed on this. I think a lot of men only "see" women if they are passably attractive. They'll dump important work on the 40+ ageing women who don't bother wearing stillettos any more but men's version of respect...that's a hard one to define really. Do you mean respect their intelligence? Act as if they are equals? Are nice to?

A lot of men I know respect physical strength in guys. It doesn't mean anything to women - other than they would be able to really hurt them - but it wouldn't necessarily equate to respect in the same way men seem to see it. Yes I suppose you'd say "all that time at the gym!" in awe from a male POV and "urgh, all that time at the gym!" from a woman who wants to travel, for example.

bit of a leap. Some individuals having issues against women, that's not enough for making blunt and generic statements about "men".

In the same way, abusive and neglectful mothers are not enough to describe the entire population. Thank god for that.

We have evidence that some men don't like women. So?

Well, I agree that their over behaviour is better towards women they find attractive.

But I really believe that type of attention isn’t really in a women’s best interest.

It’s… I don’t know - maybe manipulative? Or slightly sinister?

Theyre being “nice” because they want something. Not out of inherent respect or genuine fondness for the person. And their good behaviour is dependent on the woman remaining attractive to them. What happens when she displeases them or gains weight, gets acne, has to have an amputation? It’s all so…superficial and shallow and dependant on pleasing a male.

It is probably human nature or so engrained in human socialisation that it’s inevitable but I don’t really like it.

Opposite in my opinion to be fair

He sounds disgusting

This. I would say most men and women tend to gravitate to attractive people. Doesn't even have to be something sexual about it.

yeah, I know what you mean.

I like your last paragraph and how you described attractiveness as an armour and a way to get men on their side.

I had to laugh at your earlier statement - whereby some women over-index on the masculine condition - that’s me! And it is risky, I am seen as a threat and do get into conflict a lot but I am relatively successful, respected for my professional abilities and many men don’t bother harassing or belittling me.

I don’t know what the best solution is. I think my life would have probably been a lot easier if I was a bit more stereotypically feminine or at least somewhat “vulnerable.”

I have a daughter and I’m actually not sure which way I want to be.

“Nice”, “civil”, “respectful”.

I find men generally are better towards women they deem fuckable.

But nicer and civil doesn’t actually equate to respect.

And actually a lot of the “niceness” portrayed by men to females is actually quite demeaning and putting them in a “less than” position.

Women don’t rape one in 4 men though so I think there’s actual evidence that men don’t like women generally.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Some men like and are nice to all women, but they're nicer to attractive women because they think they might be I with a chance.

Many men don't like women and are only nice to attractive women because they think they might be in with a chance. Once they realise they're not in with a chance, they stop being nice. Hence why some of us don't tell them to fuck off when that's what we really want them to do.

I make myself look nice so that people are nice to me. It's just part of my strategy for making life easier in this often awful society.

Are you new to the Internet? Men don’t limit their hate to attractive women.

On the contrary, if they don't find you attractive they aren't interested full stop.

The problem with men here who seemed to have been a good man but suddenly stop respecting their wife, is ....they never were decent men to start with. They married someone for convenience and when temptation came, these men showed who they are

@jnh22

I don’t know about this. I think there are different kinds of respect - respect as a person, respect for professional competence, respect like chivalry where a male wants to protect someone. And then there is attention - which I think gets confused with respect. If someone is very pretty (or young), men can be attentive and give them more responsibility or promote them or “listen” to them - but I don’t think this is respect - it’s more that they are giving them attention as they are sexually interested in them.

Maybe "respect" isn't the right word. I agree that the sort of attention an older man pays to a pretty young woman isn't necessarily driven by respect.

But I have observed over the years that women who are conventionally attractive seem to find it easier to make their voices heard in male-dominated corporate environments. Whether that's an output of them having more inner confidence because they know they are attractive, or an external factor which means they are listened to more and thus able to get their ideas across, I'm not sure.

But if you look at women who have been hyper successful in corporate roles they tend to be extremely well put together, glossy, groomed and usually quite naturally pretty. Ones who don't fit this mould do exist and they tend to over-index on "masculine" confidence, which is another way to do it, but its riskier because you're constantly seen as a threat. A lot of very successful women in masculine industries use their attractiveness as a kind of armour. It's not so much that its a way to lure men in, it's more that its a protective shield to prevent men from finding anything wrong with them (because they know they will be judged much more harshly).

In my country most men respect the wife, adore their mother and worship their sisters and daughters...the good men...there are good men also. Like literally men with a penis and all that but who think good, feel good, do good and speak good

I can't actually imagine categorising myself in terms of whether someone deems me fuckable or respect-worthy.