Overheard chat about why people don’t progress at work

Have you tried using AI? If you are sending an important email to a large group, run what you want to say through chat got and ask it to make it clearer, more concise, focus on a particular area (whatever is most relevant).

I wouldn't send the AI version as it can be a bit much and sounds artificial (as indeed it is) but it is excellent at structuring information to help you see how to improve.

Same if you need to present information. Let it help you organise your thoughts better but use your own words.

Have you got time to do something like volunteering, thus meeting people and talking etc but perhaps in a less stressful situation, ie, not being paid to do something might lesson the stresses of getting it right and thus improve your communication skills.

Sometimes things just come with age and experience and perhaps you need to be kind to yourself and not think about it so much as that’s probably tripping you up before you even start. Maybe relaxation techniques before a meeting. I did some self hypnosis for medical reasons twenty years ago but have used it in other situations to calm myself before stressful meetings etc.

You’ve had some really good advice and suggestions already OP, which is great to read.

Can I ask: were you similarly flummoxed in verbal communications when you were self employed? If the answer is no, I wonder if that’s because you were an expert on your product/service and knew your offering intimately, so felt under no pressure when speaking, even if unprepared.

If so, I would ask if you consider yourself an expert in your current field? If not, perhaps this is something you could be proactive about working on. The more you know about your subject, the less likely you are to be caught off guard / get the answer “wrong”.

I’m usually reluctant to recommend the use of AI to people who are still developing their skills, because you don’t want to create over reliance on this tool and risk halting the development. You also need a certain level of skill to be able to use AI and then edit the output to suit your own style, use the appropriate tone, check inaccuracies etc, and if you lack some of those initial comms skills you’re not able to do that. However, in your case I think using AI would be a useful tool for you, if you can dedicate some time to writing the correct prompts and hone the end product.

Finally, I wondered what the objective is of your mentor programme? I note this is for a year, so I presume there is an objective attached to this and it would be good to consider what you’ve asked for and on what basis this was granted. The reason I say this is that while a mentor will help to guide you, I do think there will be an expectation that you come to the table with some thoughts, questions, reflections etc for discussion, relative to your the objective of the mentor project.

It might be worth considering:

• What work-related projects / achievements are you most proud of?
• What was a good learning experience you enjoyed and benefited from?
• What projects or which tasks felt like you had to drag them over the line and why?
• What tasks do you find very easy that others struggle with (and vice versa)?
• What energises / enthuses you at work?
• What type of activity / task drains your energy?
• Are you being stretched beyond your capabilities in your current role?
• What kind of stretch would you like?
• What is your preferred style of learning?
• What type of colleague do you enjoy working with and why?

This type of professional self reflection can be really helpful in uncovering some hidden preferences / challenges.

Hope this helps for now in some way, but it sounds to me like you are already progressing and have a growth mindset - you just need to consider where you want to get to and explore the right routes to building your skills.

It sounds like you’re heading in the right direction for what you want to do, as well as having the determination to get there.

I had two big weaknesses. One was building relationships with my colleagues, I’ve leant in hard to this over the last 2 years and made huge progress. The other is presenting, I was honest about it and I was given the opportunity to present on a smaller scale which supported me and allowed me to become more comfortable in presenting

You seem to understand where your weaknesses are. Head into your mentor sessions with some objectives to counter your weaknesses and also check out the likes of Erin McGoff who has some great content.

So you overheard a conversation in a cafe. What exactly was it you heard and why is it relevant to this post? I’m confused.

I would say progression at work is partly company bc culture and structure and partly your relationship with your team and management.

Yes, you can be amazing at your actual job and a hard worker, but from experience, it’s about balancing getting the right and important things done whilst being such an asset to your colleagues and company.

I personally found that some of my barriers to progression at an organisation has been their culture around how you progress. For instance, one company I was heading and leading everything, working across teams, my role was more Director than manager, but they were a small company and didn’t want to increase salaries, so I stayed in the same position. I didn’t mind it, I just knew that to progress I would either have to wait it out and “prove my value” by brining in more money to the company or job hop with all of my experience.

Another company I worked for has a very long process for progression. They would promise promotions but it would take about 2 years to get there because of the bureaucracy - but also it was more of a one in, one out situation too - so you were waiting for people to leave. A restructure meant that we could all progress - but you really had to be smart about where you moved and how, and what helped were reputation (getting work done and relationships) and connections to the right managers.

If you struggle with communicating, find ways that you are good at communicating. I used to contribute to our intranet a lot. I also took part in corporate internal events (you know those people that help to plan Christmas hampers, or something cheesy for world happiness day) - I enjoy that and I do this kind of thing outside work anyway, but it helped me to get recognised.

Have more 121 conversations. Ask questions in meetings. Suggest new things and follow through. Track your own progress so that when you do an end of year report you can show your manager that XYZ wouldn’t exist without you, and these are the projects that you have carried out and followed through on.

You can always improve, but also - think about playing to your strengths, target roles that involve less verbal communication and don't put you on the spot as much.

That said - don't neglect working on it. Communication becomes so so important as you become more senior, if you know its a weakness, work on it

This.

I'm I'm intrigued by your thread title - what did you overhear?

I think there's loads of good advice on this thread. Not expecting to have your hand held is such an important one, I feel. As is the ability to accept critical feedback and act accordingly.

I've moved in the opposite way to you; I was a senior manager, and now I'm self-employed.

I think you have to be a clear and confident communicator to be an effective leader, especially at the level you aspire to eventually be. I also think you need to be able to make difficult decisions at times without being wracked with self-doubt. That's tough if you're someone who struggles with their self-esteem. Senior management can be a lonely place, especially if the business is going through a tough time.

We don't know you or your strengths. But what occurs to me is that you seem very focussed on "progression", almost no matter what. Different careers offer different routes for progression. Heading up a department - which is what you've referenced - may not be the best route for you. You can polish up your skills all you want, but sometimes a person just isn't a good fit for a certain type of role, no matter how hard they try.

I hated being a senior manager but I was very good in a technical role. Different skills, but similar levels of seniority (in the field I was in).

I think it's great you've got a mentor and are keen to develop. But I would ask yourself honestly what you're aiming for and why, and whether it's something that will actually make you happy beyond the £££ and the prestige. Battling to be something you're not and having to draw on skills that don't come easily can take its toll day after day.

In your shoes I'd be looking for a role that drew on my natural strengths. Sure, develop your weaker areas too, but focus on finding a role where you can naturally excel.

You also need to be sure of your strengths and weaknesses and don’t choose a profession that contradicts that. I’m not a very good communicator especially verbal and in front of large groups of people so my chosen career in finance doesn’t require a lot of people engagement. You will fail if you set yourself up to fail.

Don't just ask, be proactive, identify issues, fixes and present a plan to your manager. Don't be passive in raising your profile.

I would work out what it is you enjoy most and what you would like to do. If communication isn't your strong point and you get a bit tongue tied you might look for a role that does not require verbally line managing people - there are different ways to progress and different roles that suit different personalities. Look at the various ways to progress and see which one suits your personality best - it may not be the highest paid but you don't want to dread going to work each day and feel drained at the end of it!

I have been second in charge in an organisation and the defacto head of a different organisation when they had no one appointed for a while but the honest truth of it is I like being number 2 or number 3, not number 1. I find the constant networking, talking and so on really tiring, the fake niceties are awful too and people who introduce you at social events by your job title. I am a background person - I like to plan, create, write etc... I don't mind line managing people as I like to help people but I hate being the face of an organisation. I do like a good chat but if I have to chat to everyone I just feel drained at the end of the day! I have to work out where I fit in in this regard without taking too big a pay cut!

Speaking is learnable. When we came back from covid I couldnt public speak, I froze, got mixed up and freaked out even though it was my favourite lart of my work before hand. I got a coach and it really helped.
I think if you already know your skills gaps then you are on a good path to progress.
For management then delegation, strategy and leadershio skills should also be on your bucket list of things to learn. Although some people are natural managers of people and some are natural dooers.
If you are a natural dooer, then you can progress by becoming highly specialised in a subject area or particular technology, process or thing without the management of people.
If you are more of a people person then management might be the way to go, although I have seen some awful managers, the best ones however are good organisers and good with people.
I think dig into what you think is more your thing. No point holding out for a gead of role if you dont like the idea of management and dealing with people and staff. But there are other ways to progress for sure

It's partially luck tbh.
If you end up working with a manager who likes you, and needs help, and you're personable moving up is relatively easy.

That's what I did.

Struggled to get a job doing what I wanted to do (same as my ex, we previously had a company doing the same thing)
I got a role, he had been doing these roles for years, within weeks I was moved up, and then moved him over to my team, and became his boss.
I was asked to leave the company and work abroad for my manager when he left. He told me I would go much, much further than even he, and he would do everything he could to help me get to where I wanted to be.
Without his support I'd have struggled I think.

@OchreCrab OP, I am in a similar situation in that I can't progress. However, my situation is different in that I am well qualified (this should at least show to you that academics can only do so much).

I would say your main weakness is your communication, because it's also my weakness. You will have noticed at our age that there are people who are thick as shit, were completely average at school and university, but they have progressed very well and are on high salaries because they are good at communication, performing well in interviews (no one can progress without doing well in an interview!), and keeping customers happy.

So personally, I would think that if you want to progress, maybe focus on your communication and your presence, rather than hard skills and academics.

The eldest are ok to be left and one off to university soon. But the other 2 aren't in school, which is why I work nights. I have done call centres previously, but DH is self-employed and his home time varies a lot and my in-laws used to help back then, but wouldn't be able to now. No point going to another supermarket as it's the work (overnights is the heavy deliveries) rather than the actual company (which has pretty generous benefits).

It's a mess of my own making, as if I'd been focused on a career before kids, I might be in a better position now. But I was just always a bit aimless, bobbed along in office admin jobs and never found anything I was good at or was interested in.

Communication can always be worked on and you’d be shocked at the people who are constantly working hard at it. I’m at a large global firm, our ceo has been here 5 years. Just recently at an all company do I noticed how much more naturally he speaks to a crowd than a couple of years ago.

you will need 10-20 minutes a day, perhaps longer. Have a question per day of the week.
each evening, look at the question. Write a 3 line response. Ask chat gpt how they would phrase the response to reply to your boss as part of a casual but work focussed conversation where you want to sound like an aware, promotable employee. And present it to yourself in the mirror several times, speaking naturally. Record it from the second week.

Monday: what are the team’s current strategic / key priorities?
tuesday: what are your current focus tasks?
Wednesday: what do you think your managers priorities are?
Thursday : what are two things you’re going to need some feedback or input on and why?
Friday: Is there anything your manager should know (something that might be late in a few weeks, leave rostering will leave the team short, we should organise a team lunch, Jane is pretty unhappy with her new project)

I don't think it's possible to mask or "reinvent yourself" without a lot of stress.

The advice I wish I'd been given when leaving school is this = look for a job that plays to your skills and where you can do a good job while working at 80% capacity rather than needing 100% the whole time.

If coming across confidently and articulating your thoughts clearly on the spot are difficult for you, don't do a job where those skills are the main thing that you are judged on.

I do hope to work on my low self esteem

I think this is your biggest problem op. You need to start believing in yourself because if you don't, why should anyone else?

Identify where you think you have weaknesses and ask for targeted training to address those areas. Your mentor should be able to help you with this.

I have maybe misunderstood your OP 🙈

I haven't progressed due to a combination of being directionless, less than average GCSE results, 4 kids, all autistic. I have the ultimate low level job which is killing me - stacking shelves in nightshift. I've been trying to find something else for ages but nothing. I'd love to job hop but I'm bottom of the recruitment pile 😫

I think there's a mix of reasons. I have colleagues who won't progress because they do what's asked and no more. Things I think are part of doing a job well - maybe updating a doc thst our team manages when you see an error - they won't update it unless told. They are quite capable, just so passive. I find it a little baffling.

In contrast, another guy is very enthusiastic, he helps people, he gets involved with as many projects as he can. He's very proactive. He needs to learn how do say no to some things, and how to manage stress at times, but he can learn that. He's been nominated for our leadership pipeline.

But I have also seen prejudice get in the way - I'm in a very male dominated area, and I've seen people held back through sexism... I've seen women held back. They just have to jump through extra hoops. I'm 9 months into my current role, and nearly cried at my first mid-year review, because they actively seem to recognise good work and will support those who show promise, and it's so different when you have managers who believe in you and support you, rather than trying to squash you into a restrictive box they think you should stay in.