KPMG apprentice programme instead of university?

Just another thought, finance isn’t all about auditing. There’s several strands of accountancy you can do, so look at the websites and look at the options.

Not quite KPMG but a large regional practice.

We used to take apprentices at 18. By 21 they were close to fully qualified whilst the graduate entry still had to do the professional exams.

I work at Big4, trained at mid tier as a graduate. If I’d known what I wanted to do at 18 I would definitely go back and do an apprenticeship now.

As a trainee/graduate we had a work hard play hard philosophy and I look back on those years more fondly than my uni years. I think our apprentices and grads do the same nowadays, but I’m too old/uncool/senior to be involved so I can’t be sure.

I’d encourage it if I was in your shoes.

I work at Big4, trained at mid tier as a graduate. If I’d known what I wanted to do at 18 I would definitely go back and do an apprenticeship now.

As a trainee/graduate we had a work hard play hard philosophy and I look back on those years more fondly than my uni years. I think our apprentices and grads do the same nowadays, but I’m too old/uncool/senior to be involved so I can’t be sure.

I’d encourage it if I was in your shoes.

Same goes for investment banking. Tier 1 isn’t for everyone. Some thrive on the pressure and environment and buzz. Some don’t, but if you can work like a dog for 3 years at the start of your career, you can go anywhere you want after and they’ll bite your hand off. I wholly disagree with the PP who said you are trapped there if you don’t have a degree; this is absolutely not the case with an apprenticeship. Many IB colleagues have moved over to consulting in the big 4 after a few years.

At the end of the day; these are high pressured, but very well paid positions. If you want to work, you’ll be rewarded.

This would be my concern as well (though I'm not in the industry so I don't know how well founded it is). What happens if it turns out you hate finance? Or you hate it in ten years time?

I'd also be wary of specialising too soon, especially in finance, in which jobs are being hit hard by AI. We literally don't know what jobs are going to be around in ten years time.

In the best case, and I know this isn't always true, university level learning teaches students how to think in particular ways, how to research and problem solve, and how to express and defend their ideas in various formats. I'd want to know that degree apprenticeships did the same.

I've worked at EY and Deloitte, and DH has worked at Deloitte and KPMG. Some people love big 4 some people hate it. We both hated it with a passion, but there are people who absolutely thrive. A lot depends on the team and which office you're in. Even if you hate it, however, once you've served your time, you have a ticket to pretty much wherever you want to go with your career. I love the job I do now and I'm paid a lot to do it. That wouldn't have been possible without grinding through the big 4 at the start of my career.

Edited to say: I did the grad training scheme in London and socially it was way better than uni because we had money to spend and better places to go because of it. I had an absolute fucking ball with the other grads.

It’s a GREAT option. She will launch her career, not have debt, and earn way more than her peers way earlier. She can take time out and do a degree/MBA later; yes it will be a different experience to uni but I do not think she will regret it (I have experience in this area and have seen many people make a huge success of these schemes).

Oh and training scheme years were as fun as uni and more! Social scene was great and I had so much more money than at uni so could really enjoy it.

Great idea. I work in this industry and have come across lots of people who've started this way. They are bright and hard working, I'd hire any of them. I went via the degree route and it was a (fun) waste of money & 3 years. I hope my own kids choose the apprentice route rather than what I did.

Another one who says it’s a no brainier.

To get into a top 4 programme is not easy.

She could go to uni, end up in loads of debt and struggle with a training contract.

This way she is training with a reputable firm, assuming he qualifies will be ahead of everyone who went to Uni and in no debt!

Do it! 😬

I would add that the "Uni experience" that we enjoyed is vastly different to uni today. Far more people live at home due to cost and have to work many jobs there really isn't the same experience of socialising that it was "back in the day". Obviously people still have a great time but apprenticeships are brilliant in my view!

Also there’s a reason why it’s a meme that KPMG is a terrible place to work. I wouldn’t advise my kid to work there!

I work in finance so I will offer the other side of the coin so that she can go in with eyes open.

No company, not a single one, does something out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it so they can pay them less and make them less likely to leave.

I know directors at a tier-1 investment bank who cannot leave jobs that they hate because the don’t have a degree (they came in and worked their way up in the way it used to be possible to do), and they do not pass the first round of HR/AI screening for the equivalent job elsewhere. That extra three years of experience at the beginning of the career counts for nothing when you’re 10+ years in, and then you have to compete with someone who has Oxbridge on their CV (which like it or not, still opens doors).

I interview for apprentice programmes in a big US bank. Why do we hire them? Because they’re cheap, we know they’ve got fewer options to leave, and we can give them all the shit boring work that needs to be done and they’ll be grateful to do it because they think that being paid 35k with no progression sounds like a lot of money. (ETA I just looked up the KPMG apprentice salary - 25k. lol good luck subsidising their rent for the first few years). Meanwhile the Associates with a master’s degree are being paid 100k for quant roles.

I would say go for it if university is not for you, and your other option is a not great course at a not great university. But make sure that you’re getting really good experience with a good team and manager and you’re not just being farmed out to do the crap that no one else wants to do. If you’re not and finance is the end game anyway, then go to uni because by the time you’re at director level you’ll be clearing the fees at pace once you hit 150k, which should be doable in a few years.

If she can get one and is very disciplined then go for it - no debt and the chance to enjoy life going out and holidays etc. plus save for a house deposit, whilst gaining the same qualification plus 4 years experience!

Competition is very high though - there are only about 50k degree apprenticeship places vs 565k Uni places in the UK

My dd just finished year 1 & it was the right decision for her and she is glad she chose it. Hers is not in finance, I would say it's a less competitive subject - but there were over 5k applicants for 51 places and a few have not been able to hack the dual load of working and study/assignments and have dropped out

It’s a great option but it is really brutally hard, and KPMG gets a really bad rep for work/life balance (in that there isn’t one) and has absolutely earned that reputation. It’s good money but they do take their pound of flesh, it’s certainly not the environment for everyone to thrive in.

I don't know, it all sounds good but I think there is still something to be said for finding yourself and developing your personality, interests and social skills over 3 years of university. Even if uni is not the same as it was.

I've worked at Big 4 and the idea of starting there at 18 - 18! And working there until retirement is just a bit depressing even though it would come with rewards. It's a high pressure, often up or out environment. You don't know if it's going to suit you until you're in it, and the percentage who make partner is very low, as you'd expect.

I went to uni, my sister went to Coopers and Lybrand at age 18 (showing our age haha).

We both had a blast, it's not as if you have to be at uni to enjoy your youth! She has had a fantastic career whereas mine is, I'd say, 'pretty good'. A lot of this can come down to personality and capability of course but there's no doubt in my mind that if you can get one and you're the type to thrive on it, 100% go for the apprenticeship.

Uni is a luxury, far from guaranteed to get you a great job at the end of it. There's no substitute for work experience. And if you're worried about missing out on the opportunity to study something you love, why not do that AFTER you've established yourself in a career rather than BEFORE?

Not the same firm but my DS did a degree apprenticeship. No tuition fees, earning while learning plus a guaranteed job, he just got his degree awarded and got a 1st class. They are ridiculously competitive though.

I work in consultancy and I would absolutely recommend this. I went travelling mid 20s and met loads of people on sabaticals from big firms and law firms etc that had taken a year out in their 20s to explore the world so if she feels the need to do this kind of thing then it can be done ina few years. Student debt is insane now, I went to uni and I am hoping my kids do not want to go. You can take a degree at any stage in life if you want to persue one. I did a law post grad in my late 20s and was one of the youngest people on the course.
Noone has even asked about my degree since my first job either.
I really think she is taking the best route here.

Absolute no brainer.

No debt, valuable qualification, a few years ahead of their peers professionally.

We have these schemes in my firm and they are fantastic. They come out far ahead of graduates, having valuable experience, not in shedloads of debt and with a mature outlook. The graduate scheme is pretty much oxbridge too, which is frustrating for those of us who’d rather have a more diverse workforce.

I’d say definitely go for it!

This sounds like a great opportunity, and also sounds like it’s been around a while with a good support structure.

I wonder if this sort of thing will become more popular. My DC are way too young for uni, but they cannot understand why anyone would want to spend 3 years socialising, drinking, living in a shared grotty house etc, without even considering the debt and the lack of guaranteed well-paid job at the end of it. A lot of young people seem to socialise online, don’t drink, and favour going to the gym which sounds completely at odds to the university experience I recognise.

I think the university experience is not what it was for most students. They are concerned about debt and most of them have to work alongside their studies much more than the generation before them. They seem much less sociable too, due to online spaces taking the place of IRL socialising.

I would encourage her to apply for degree apprenticeships, she's not going to miss out, but be aware they are very competitive and she may not get one. It's a lot easier to get a university place, even at the best universities than a degree apprenticeship from a prestigious firm.