KPMG apprentice programme instead of university?

I worked at a Big 4 on a training programme. It’s hard work (long hours and working away) but as others have said, it’s really social. You join in a cohort and go to college together so it’s really easy to make friends. I only stayed long enough to get my chartered accountancy qualification then left but it’s a great stepping stone to other things. Many years later I am still very good friends with people I met there even though I wasn’t there long.

It depends what apprenticeship it is but some schemes just go straight to the accountancy exams and do don’t a degree. The accountancy qualification is a post grad qualification so masters level. You don’t have to have done a degree to do it. I have heard of degree apprenticeship where you get a degree and the accountancy qualification.
One thing to look into is their exam fail policy. Some firms are quite strict and if you fail too many exams you lose your job.

I don’t have DC old enough to go to uni but I have heard some don’t find the experience as good as my generation did. It’s an awful lot of debt to come out with. If she knows she wants to be an accountant, an accountancy degree is of very little benefit. After a couple of days at accountancy college the non-accountancy degree people have caught up with the ones with an accountancy degree.

Is this post A level? If so, she should look at the Flying Start programme with PWC which includes:
4 years at uni
Placements in years 2,3 and 4 with a salary and apartment
Guaranteed job with 2:1 or above
After year 1 in work (roughly) become fully qualified as Chartered Accountant
It’s a great way to gain a professional qualification, earn mine and still get the uni experience.

I think any profession which is mostly populated by traditional Russell group graduates is not going to be a level playing field for a graduate apprentice. Apprenticeships nationally have about a 60% pass rate on average so I'd be wary who the provider is and what their pass rate is. Apprenticeships are fantastic but so are undergraduate degrees. I think concerns about agency, being able to pause study, work where you like, have confidence and skills are all realistic and it's not just about the money

I’m a teacher and I would encourage my students and my own children to go straight to KPMG.

Depends on the person too. Ds will be starting at a big4 audit dept in a grad role this Sept - he benefitted from the time at uni to mature and develop his people skills. There’s no right answer, know yourself and do what suits you.

I have worked for KPMG in a different function for many years. In audit work life balance is brutal, busy season is quite long and during busy season you could not take time off, nor expect to see much outside work. However, many of the people I have met there are now working at non Big 4 companies all over the world and are highly sought after, due to work ethics. If she can do that for approximately 3 years, she should be fine, but if she appreciated any spare time, than it might not be for her.

Do People think university has changed a lot? I was there in the early 90s

But I think OP is concerned that her DC will miss out on the university “experience”.

i work in the law field and the solicitor apprenticeships are amazing - if the ones in finance are similar it would be a great option. They are highly competitive though

The university tax you now have to pay until you retire doesn’t seem worth it

i went when you got the smallest grant ever. I worked during this time. It was me working that got me on to my, quite good now job, not my degree

I would absolutely bite their hands off for a KPNG or another apprenticeship. Yes it will be hard graft but so worth it in a few years

I think the whole concept of Uni was outdated 20 years ago when I did my degree, except back then every non minimum wage job inexplicably required a graduate background. It seems to have taken a long time to change the narrative about University.

I'd 100% encourage my children to try and apprenticeship or two and bypass Uni.

I did a degree apprenticeship 10 years ago, in a different industry albeit. I did my degree on day release, sharing the same lectures as the full time students. We still went on uni nights out and we also had the social side with the other apprentices. I don't feel like I missed out at all. In fact, I feel like I had more options earlier on in my career because I had several years experience on my CV alongside my degree.

Ultimately, I think it evens out somewhere along the way, now I work alongside people of a similar age who came through various routes, but in those early years I had more choice, more money, and more options. Uni wouldn't have been for me.

I take your point about the benefits of university on life skills etc.

However, there are so many more graduates now. It is much more competitive in the jobs market. My DD graduated last summer with a 2.1 and it took her 6 months to get an interview.

I would absolutely take the KPMG route over Uni.

As Scary monster says above Uni was very different 20 - 30 years ago, but its costly and that level of debt can take years to clear.

Some of my friends lived it large, scraping through, but most worked two jobs, which alongside studying was hard, but the Uni experience is different for everyone.

I mean this kindly.

Your experience of university was:
Mainly free
Pre internet
Pre social media
Pre internet in rooms
When student accommodation was basic and affordable
Pre remote learning destroying a lot of that cohort experience.

It’s not something available to your daughter.

The apprenticeship route in a big scheme probably offers more of what you’re thinking of than a university degree would today.

(it’s a lot easier to have fun when you’re being paid than running up debt).

I’d be thrilled if my child wanted to do this and got a place. Degrees are not good value for money anymore unless you are pursuing a career that needs it e.g. medicine.

I’m a senior finance leader and trained myself with KPMG (as a graduate because it was way before they offered apprenticeships). When I see a CV of someone who joined as a apprentice, they automatically get extra kudos from me because they were smart enough not to saddle themselves with a load of debt for a degree that is quite frankly not needed if they are planning to do professional accountancy exams with a Big4.

Uni isn’t worth the price paid for most people these days I don’t think

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship and absolutely loves it, he's made good friends there, lives away and really enjoys his work. It's not big 4 though and so doesn't have the stress/pressure that working there probably would.

I would say though that she's going to need top grades predicted, have a confident, outgoing, proactive personality, an impressive amount of extra curriculars and be well prepped for interviews (ie have researched the company and their values, be up to date on what is happening in the field, answer in STAR format, have strong examples of different skills etc) to help her stand out. I'd also recommend applying to a number of apprenticeships to increase her chances (if she's keen to go down that route) and to also give her more experience of the application process.

DS started looking around Oct/Nov of Yr 13 and applied to about 15 or 20 different places. JP Morgan (for example) had around 2000 applicants for 25 places so competition is fierce. There are also often several stages to the process and you may have interviews at the same time as mocks. The Student Room can be a useful place to find out information about the process with different companies and chat to others that have applied DS found.

Oh this is wrong - ignore me 😆

At kpmg audit is the only section which does apprenticeships so it’s the only way in really if you’re going that route

My DD1 has a Maths degree from an RG uni and then completed her chartered accountancy professional exams with a Big 4 company in Audit. She says the stereotype is that everyone in Audit has the ambition to get out of Audit ( this may be an exaggeration) and into Tax, consultancy or into a corporate finance job. Once qualified, there are simply masses of options if she wants to leave KPMG and work somewhere else.

I would definitely say yes, it's a very prestigious thing to have on her CV and will set her up for life, whatever she decides to eventually do. She can always go back to uni at a later date if she feels the need. It will be very, very hard work (though probably nothing like it was a decade or more ago!) but she'll be with loads of other people her age going through the same thing, and there are masses of social opportunities from proper clubs to informal drinks.

One of my relatives did the apprentice scheme with KPMG. By the time she was qualified her brother was leaving uni with a massive debt and was earning less than she was. She managed to get a secondment overseas where she has stayed. She now works for another company and earns really good money.
She did have to work really hard but doesn’t regret it at all.

In my humble opinion, I think the KPMG scheme is the way to go.

Absolutely!

I joined as a tax grad, which is way more limited in scope than auditing. Of the 40ish of us who joined at the same time, I'm one of about 5 of us who still works in tax. There's an amazing array of careers among my cohort. For the auditors, it's even more diverse.