TW - DBil suicide attempt on DN’s birthday - help please

Isn't it just.
I think the Mum is doing as best she can, in a fucked up situation.

Why dont those casting jugdement tell us how they dealt with everything, when their husband tried to take his life multiple times in 48 hours, whom they found, likely dealt with getting him committed, all whilst simultaneously celebrating their child's birthday and dropping everything to be there for her. Oh and self care, because I'm sure OPs sister is in a great mental place herself.

All this "deciding to kill himself on his child's birthday" is an absolute load of bollocks. By default they are not thinking rationally. My DH attempted in woodland but aborted when he was disturbed by some noises (he thought people but I think most likely an animal as it was at night) and this gave him some time/space to, for want of a better expression, snap out of it and decide he wasn't going to go through with it. So DH went from being wholly engulfed in despair to the point that the only thing in his mind was to kill himself, to deciding not to because he didn't want to leave DD and I in a matter of seconds/minutes.

Unfortunately he deteriorated again and made another attempt in our garage when nobody was home and had received a phone call that tipped him over the edge. Fortunately he failed as the beam the noose was tied around gave way and he was found in the same woodland preparing for a second attempt (I'd alerted the police as soon as I knew something was wrong as I had a call at work from the person that had called him as they were concerned for his welfare and they found him in time using ANPR).

We don't know the circumstances of OP's Dbil's attempted suicide were, we really know nothing about the situation at all. So to say that he was selfish because of the day he "chose" (we don't even know if this was a premeditated choice or an acute reaction/exacerbation similar to my DH's last attempt) is quite cruel. It is really awful that she will forevermore associate her birthday with the event, and I would envisage that it will make her recovery harder/more lengthily as she could possibly view it as a sign that she was somewhat to blame for his actions (even more than if it was on any other day), but to blame him for that, I think, is below the belt.

I'm so sorry for your loss @VaseofViolets and everyone else who has been affected by suicide.

Just a hug. Don’t be afraid to seek out support for yourself too, and advice while you have DN with you. Maybe looking at Help is at Hand the NHS booklet might be good.

Another vote for play therapy - but not yet.

Suicide risk rises on birthdays, up to 40%. Normally on the birthday of the person attempting/committing suicide, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is also true for birthdays in the immediate family as well.

I know someone whose father committed suicide the day before her birthday. His mental illness had convinced him that he was a poison in her life, and the best gift he could give her was freedom from him. As devastating as it is for a child, someone in acute distress isn’t necessarily going to be capable of comprehending the actual impact that such an action will have.

What a horribly judgmental comment.

Seconded. DN will almost certainly be traumatised (silence does not mean she is ok). It would be a good idea to get professional advice on how best to assist her. And for her mother to put her- not the husband- first. Experiences at this stage could have lasting detrimental effects on her.

I too have experience of suicide in the family. I don’t agree serious attempts always take place outside the home (one of my own relatives took her life at home) but doing this on the child’s birthday does not bode at all well in terms of father’s ability or suitability to play a role in DN’s life. Poor child.

I doubt this came out of nowhere. I'd say there is a long and distressing account of how he got here. Dsis might have just been through months of hell before her worst fear came to pass, and need some time to think how she will talk to her child. She might not even be able to think of the child right now. I don't think its right to judge her.

@Muffinmam I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

So have I and it did not take place outside of the house.
Please do not appoint yourself as the arbiter on this. Every situation is unique.

Poor kid. I would definitely mention to DN what is happening in an age appropriate way (dad was feeling unwell and that made him sleepy, so the ambulance came and now mum is making sure he’s ok and they both love DN and very soon she will see mum). Yes DN will be worrying and confused, missing the normal birthday celebration would have struck her hard I expect.

I was recently in hospital for unplanned surgery and my ds age 6 was affected by seeing me poorly. He appreciated a lot more hugs and reassurance and has been clingy. We didn’t let him come to the hospital because my ward was quite frightening due to lots of noisy and quite sweary people in the next bay, so I just vanished and that’s scary for a child.

All you do is be there which is what you’re doing. To attempt on his little one’s Birthday clearly says his poor mind must be in an absolute turmoil.

I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.
Pack it in with this nonsense.

OP, I am really glad you are there for your niece, and keeping things normal. I agree with PP about therapy, I definitely needed it when my dad killed himself (after trying it before).

Your poor sister. I hope you can ignore the posters scorning her. The poor woman's husband has tried multiple times in a short space of time. It's easy to make judgement on the Internet.

Yeah, that's pretty awful.

Such a tough situation OP and your DN is lucky to have you during this tough time.

I'm 32 now and when I was 7 my mother overdosed when I was on my own in the house with her. She attempted again over the years but it was the first time that stuck with me. I was deeply traumatised and it impacted my life in many ways. I had no support as a child, no one explained to me what was going on and no therapy etc. My mother's side of the family were ashamed so wanted nothing to do with us.

I think it would be good to get professional guidance on perhaps how to explain to your DN in an age appropriate way that Dad is poorly but is getting help to get better and absolutely therapy, play therapy, she may need talk therapy as she gets to her teenage years as I have no doubt it will stay with her.

But she has loving family around her and that will make such a difference. Sending hugs OP.

Keep looking after DN, don't judge DSis for not visiting and don't judge DBil for what happened.

Ignore the people here making out like he didn't mean it or should have picked another day. He's mentally unwell, he wouldn't have "picked" the date ⁸

Sending hugs to all.

Maybe dsis hasn’t visited dn because she can’t cope with seeing her, or knows what to say to her.

Wow that's tough OP, poor DN. Have you spoken to your sis at all? I'd try to get an update if possible on what's happening so you have a way to bring it all up with DN and hopefully reassure her a little about what's going on.

You could then say 'I've just spoken to your mummy, she's looking after daddy who's in hospital because he's poorly. They're both missing you loads and are sending loads of love. If there's anything you want to ask or talk about any time then I'll try and answer any questions you have.'

Just knowing that you've spoken to her mum and her parents haven't suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth might reassure her. Who knows what's going through her head at this point poor little thing.

Living with someone who is mentally unwell and suicidal is emotionally draining and terrifying for all involved including your DS. These kinds of situations tend to have long tails and so DS and DN may have been living in a very stressful situation for some time. It's a pity DS's first priority isn't her daughter, but she'll be in shock and her MH may be compromised.

In your shoes I'd invite DS to visit daily or stay with you, so you can give her some care and attention and get a handle on what's been going on. Has this all come as a dreadful shock to you, or have you been aware of DBIL's struggles for a while?

I'd assure DN that Mummy and Daddy are okay, Daddy's not well and is being looked after in hospital. Is she asking questions about what she saw? If so I'd say Daddy wasn't well and the paramedics came to make him better. Low key, calm, nothing to worry about.

You will know the kind of lifestyle DN usually has and what she enjoys, so do what she's used to. Right now she needs to feel safe and comfortable and able to let any worries go. Is she distressed at not having her mum around? If things have been difficult at home recently, being with you may be the best thing.

I've been reading about memory recently and it seems to be accepted these days that very few people actually have clear and accurate memories much before the age of eight. Much of what we 'remember' stems from photos, videos and family stories and stuff we pick up from others. So with luck your calm, loving reassurance will stick and help soothe the stress of what she saw and heard.

I would definitely not, at this stage, involve professionals, GPs and support services, who will pathologise her. Sorry to anyone involved in those services, but I know from my own experience of having a close family member commit suicide how utterly crap at the worst and unhelpful at the best the 'help' they offer can be. If your DN is doing okay in your care, then I'd continue to make her feel safe, cherished and that everything is okay. Little children can be surprisingly resilient.

Good luck, such a tough call for everyone involved.

Genuine attempts always take place outside the house? What planet are you on making sweeping statements like that? What a stunning lack of empathy from someone bigging up their own knowledge.

My first husband killed himself in our bedroom. But it wasn’t a genuine attempt, I guess.

This shows a lack of understanding of acute mental health crises.
He will most likely have been in such a dark place that he thought that his beautiful daughter and wife would be better without him (absolutely not true). Suicidal people rarely 'pick a date'.

You are a wonderful sister and aunty. Just support your DN as you are doing now. Offer her plenty of fun, keep her routine going (don't be tempted to spoil her with junk food and late bedtimes), answer her questions as appropriate (Daddy is unwell and the doctors are trying to help him in hospital), don't make empty promises (yes he will get better and you will all be a happy family- he may not, so say rather I really hope so, love).

Exactly. When every second of life is unbearably painful, you just want the agony to stop.

My university housemate killed herself on my birthday. When you’re that unwell, nothing else is going through your mind.

I was in your DNs shoes growing up. I don't remember witnessing anything but I knew enough by 9 to tell my mum i was scared to come home without her there in case dad had hung himself.

Short term, I have coping mechanisms built on what we did when things were bad (eating my favourite foods, watching favourite movies). My great aunt would make me soup and give me her daughters toys from the 60s. Or we'd clean.

Long term - if this is something that continues

My mum wishes someone had told her sooner that she was OK to prioritise me, my sibling and herself. Keeping dad happy was EVERYTHING for years and it exhausted her, put me and sibling through very challenging times and left us all with trauma. Dad got better out of the home with intensive support.

I wish someone had stopped people from telling me to be good for dad / that I was his reason for living. It changed who I am. I am always looking for the space I need to fill / what is needed from me. I went from the loudest girl in school to permanently in the background. Be the person she can be herself with.

What a difficult situation OP, I imagine its a relief to everyone involved that DN is safe and cared for with you. I'm sure your DSIS would appreciate updates a few times a day on your DN without needing to ask or reply. Just a nice photo and a message about how she is and what she's been up to to reassure her DN is safe and well.

How best to support your DN? Tell your sister that your DN's needs, need to come first. Hopefully it's been reported to SS, because she has got caught up in her DH's mental illness and is prioritising him and needs a reality check on the effect on her daughter.

Do you not think that your DN not talking about her parents, isn't a sign that she's burying trauma? There's help online on how to talk to children. You need to speak to Dsis first. If things continue as they are, your DN is at risk of further serious harm (she's already experienced it) and it can't be avoided. Her DH should stay in as long as possible, then go to stay outside of the home, would you be willing to put him up?