TW - DBil suicide attempt on DN’s birthday - help please

She is 6 so don't start talking about daddy trying to end his life etc without professional input or at the very least permission from her Mum.

Give her lots of love and keep her distracted. Also check in with your sister regularly and have a standard answer for where when asks where her parents are that isn't to do with a psychiatric hospital. 'Daddy is very tired/ Mummy has sim e work to do' etc

I think your sisters lack of visit thus far shows how much she trusts you.
It sounds like you are being a brilliant support.
You could offer to take DN to see her mum or the three of you go out for a coffee somewhere relaxed and in a setting away from the house. Your sister could also stay at your house if that seems easier than at her house for a few days Xox

@FatCyclist so sorry for your loss and agree with your comments

Dad’s not well - that all she needs to know.
Long term? My cousin left her DH in similar circumstances because she decided that she needed to put the children’s mental health 1sf, and her own.
Many years after the divorce a s many attempts later he finally succeeded. Cousin carries the guilt of leaving an ill man but had no regrets about removing the children from living with the threat looming over them.

This might sound too obvious but has anyone actually told the child that her dad has survived the attempt and is getting medical help to help him recover? sounds like she saw him being carted off in an ambulance and hasn’t seen him since and also hasn’t had any conversations about it. not seeing him for a while after that will be a trauma in itself because she will fill in the gaps in her head with whatever thoughts she has to help her process it, and they could be anything. She needs to be told clearly that he’s now fully conscious and is staying in a lovely special hospital for people with illness in the brain. You should tell her that she can come to you with any questions at all and not be afraid to ask you anything.

You can’t shield her from this unfortunately and will do more harm than good if you try to pretend it hasn’t happened. I’d probably say something like: his brain is ill so he got very sad, he didn’t want to die but he wanted the sadness to stop so he took too many pills, he will now take medicine to help his brain get better, doctors are going to do everything they can to help him, he loves you very much.

As someone who recently lost a sibling to suicide, can you all please back the fuck off the poor mum? Her husband is seriously unwell. Let’s imagine this medical emergency was for a physical-health-related reason, rather than MH (a serious car accident say). Would you be as quick to judge and condemn the person in charge of picking up the pieces?

I suspect the reason she’s not with her child right now is largely practical. She is going to have a huge amount to deal with right now, administratively, logistically, let alone emotionally. She’s going to be spending a lot of time liaising with the daunting and complex bureaucracy of the health service, speaking to medical professionals, spending time with her husband, going back & forth to hospital a lot. Do you think that it would be suitable for a 6- year-old to be dragged along to all of this?

The child is in the best possible place for her (bless you OP).

OP, to answer your question re the best way to support your DN: what you’re doing already sounds fantastic. Be as open as is suitable for a 6-year-old if she asks questions (“Daddy is very poorly but the doctors are working very hard to make him better.” “Mummy is very busy right now and has to spend a lot of time talking to the doctors, but she loves you very very very much and she is so sad that she can’t be with you now on your birthday. But she’s going to make sure you have a very special time with her as soon as she’s not so busy helping the doctors.”)

@Blushingm I am very sorry for your loss.

I haven’t read the full thread yet (I will), but I had to counter this - you are wrong. I’m a paramedic, and ex police - do you know how many people I’ve found deceased by suicide in their own homes? Dozens, if not over a hundred.

People who die by suicide are at a point where they are only thinking about how to end their unbearable pain, and the fact that they will be improving the lives of those around them by doing this (in their skewed by their suicidality view).

Further to my previous post in which I mentioned things my DH has said to me about being in this situation. I have just asked him what he would recommend in this situation. He said “tell her it’s not normal. You don’t want her thinking this is a normal thing to go through and she’s crap not to be able to cope. Tell her this isn’t usual and she might find it hard and that’s ok”

Further to my previous post in which I mentioned things my DH has said to me about being in this situation. I have just asked him what he would recommend in this situation. He said “tell her it’s not normal. You don’t want her thinking this is a normal thing to go through and she’s crap not to be able to cope. Tell her this isn’t usual and she might find it hard and that’s ok”

Because those are rationale thoughts... they aren't thinking rationally. They don't think it's traumatic, they think they'll be glad for example

@Musicaltheatremum

I am so sorry that you had to go through that. It must have been terrifying.

Thank goodness your grandparents were able to be on hand.

I hope you are all ok and things are better now.

I think too, seeing the other parent so traumatised is not good for the child. My children remember seeing their father unconscious after a seizure (initial presentation of his brain tumour) they were 4&6 and are now 30&32 and still talk about remembering how sad I was and how I struggled to cope. My parents came up to stay and I spent hours at the hospital. They were upset about their dad but having their grandparents who were fun and making life better around really helped. We were just very honest that daddy was poorly. Don't need to say what happened...but keep them talking. But some normality and stability that the aunt in this case is able to give is invaluable

And that is a comment on the lack of appropriate trauma support not a comment on the child being unsafe because of the presence of the parent. If you started removing children from a parent on these grounds, and that parent then committed suicide because of that fact, how do you think the child will react to that knowledge?

The answer is not removing a child from the parent solely on those grounds, but improving the support and mental health services for the entire family. It is the lack of those provisions that is the shameful fact. Not that someone has become so ill that they attempt suicide. I assume you wouldn't remove a child if someone had a heart attack or a stroke - they are also illnesses and witnessing such a thing is equally traumatic.

genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

Statistically, most suicides are committed at home.

Sending love to all those who had been affected by suicide.

@Eskarina1

That may well be the case and it’s truly a shame but honestly how was the mother to have known what she was walking into?

The point that I am arguing is the criticism the mother is getting for staying at the hospital and not rushing back to be with the child.

Is she also not entitled to be traumatised?

I am sure she is trying to navigate this horrific situation as very best as she can.

Unfortunately there is research from reputable academic sources correlating children witnessing parental suicide attempts and increased risk of things like substance abuse and suicide attempts themselves in later.

That is a very different scenario from the one described in the OP. One parent, apparently without previous indications, attempted suicide in one short time period. There is no indication that the child is in any danger, and there is no direct correlation purely between a child at risk and a suicide attempt. You cannot draw conclusions from one scenario and then apply it to all others.

But you don’t know the trauma her father experienced to get to that point. You can have empathy for all of the people involved. People are actually pretty fragile beings, they can suffer enormously with emotional pain caused from all sorts. You clearly have empathy for your friend, why are you so black and white as to not be able to extend that to her father or the father here?

My DB hanged himself whilst on holiday with his DD and DP who had terminal cancer…..I don’t see the selfishness any more, I think his desperation must have been so overwhelming

My dad grew up with my grandmother who was extremely unwell (schizophrenia) and his dad who had deep trauma from his own mothers repeated suicide attempts. It's why my dad's mental health was broken.

I know, first hand, that a home environment with an actively suicidal parent isn't safe. I know because of the lasting impact on my dad, on the impact of his mental health breakdown on me and my siblings. I know because he went on to marry a woman who had made repeated suicide attempts that her children found and I know how traumatised they were long term. I know because one of my closest friend's parents was successful and I know the impact on her and her sibling (who went on to take her own life).

I'm not unsympathetic or uncaring to mental health struggles. I care passionately. But through no fault of the parents own it isn't safe. You cannot make it safe.

I am sorry you think I am ignorant. I am coming at this from the other side - I have a close friend who as a teen found her father’s body after he killed himself. The trauma of that, and of the feeling she wasn’t enough for him, lives with her every day nearly thirty years later, despite lots of therapy and a loving family. Having seen the enormous, life-changing impact it has had on her - more than if he had died of a physical illness - I admit I do struggle to understand the perspective of her father / the BIL here. As a parent it is the last thing I would want my child to go through.