Diversity schemes for young people - mixed race child.

‘I can assure you that encouraging diversity by any means necessary is beneficial for any institution or organisation’

…the problem summed up in one sentence.

It's ridiculous isn't it? This boy may qualify for these schemes on account of being 1/4 black even if most people don't see the black in him when they look at him. I was watching a man interviewed on TV last week who appeared completely white to me and it was only when he started talking about his black heritage (1 grandparent) that I looked at him differently and thought 'Oh yes, I can ever-so-slightly see it now that I know he's 1/4 black, but I wouldn't otherwise have noticed.'

I know two siblings who are 1/4 black. One of them looks very noticably mixed race, or would even pass as a fully black person of fairly lightish complexion. I'd say most people would guess him to be half black.

His brother looks not even the tiniest bit black. Very fair skin, strawberry blonde hair (curly but exceptionally so) and blue eyes.

If you believe that 'being black' holds a person back because of institutional racism then surely it hasn't held these white passing people back in the slightest and they've probably benefited from so-called white privilege if that exists.

And of course it's not surprising so many black-identifying people 'pass' as white, when they are 3 times genetically whiter than black.

So are we going to start vetting applicants for these schemes based on their skin tone alone and deciding (if they are part black) whether they look black enough? Because that's a hideous and incredibly regressive thing to do.

My brothers could apply and be equally black genetically. One could be accepted and the other not.

I don't have any book recommendations.

But I do recommend living by simple virtues "treat others as you'd be expected to be trea9ted yourself "

"Don't rock my boat and I won't rock yours "

"Treat everyone with respect and courtesy. Like them until they give you reason not to "

I do think we over analyse (sorry but particularly in middle class circles ) and it promotes division. But because it sounds insightful and clever : we assume it's the correct way.

So no. Thought not. Perhaps there is some literature you could recommend that might support your version of equality?

I've read the reviews and read segments of them online. The reviews are balanced and well written and include some from reputable critics. I feel they're divisive.

Positive action is different to positive discrimination. This won't be someone getting a job because of their skin colour as that is illegal in the UK (unless a genuine occupational requirement). It will be an opportunity to get work experience that means more people from black backgrounds can apply for jobs in this field in the future. Those going through the scheme would still have to meet the criteria for the job if any vacancy came up. They would still be hired on their merits.

This is a really good point but I can understand why he’d feel disingenuous in his application if he doesn’t identify with the intended community.

If he's eligible, he should do it! In a few years, no one will know or remember how he got into the industry.

Thanks for your speedy response! I wonder if you have anything else you can recommend, though appreciate many books that seem to nail it at the time don’t tend to age well.

Have you read them?

He might meet the criteria but it’s about how he identifies at the end of the day and whether he recognises or relates to the challenges the programme is trying to tackle.

Oh no. Please don't recommend those books. Unfortunately they're used to make every white person believe they're a closet racist and it's divisive and detrimental. "White fragility" is an insulting title to start with.

If we are to aim for equality (which I genuinely believe most of us want and strive for ) books like that do nothing but cause more division.

It’s because we’ve made some progress that this is “allowed”. I think, from what you’ve said, you’ve not explored this before but I can assure you that encouraging diversity by any means necessary is beneficial for any institution or organisation, not just the individual. I can recommend “White Fragility” by Robin Diangelo, if you’re curious.

But how is he to know whether he has been treated differently because of his heritage. People generally don’t admit to treating someone differently because of his name, skin colour, parents skin colour.
i am pretty sure I’ve been treated differently because im a woman at times. How can i prove it.
check the criteria for it and apply.
surely its not a scheme aimed at how dark your skin is ???
it’s sad that we need these things but there you go

Also, I do firmly believe the biggest detriment to success and the biggest unconscious and conscious bias we have in the UK today : Is class.

You seem to be saying there is discrimination (a biased view) that we can’t prove and therefore we should overtly discriminate against groups of people in favour of other groups of people to stamp it out? It’s a hard no from me I’m afraid. Hopefully the equalities act is enforced after the next general
election and we put this nonsense in the past where it belongs.

This is a very sensible post and thankyou for putting it more eloquently than I was able to. I stopped commenting as I admit, I had worded things in ways where I was just picked apart and then accused of covert racism etc. and that seems to be the problem: anyone that wants actual equality is accused of racism. So everyone goes quiet and retreats.

We have moved such a long way away from treating ethnic minorities and gay people differently. They are now awarded special treatment (that's not sarcasm) in employment and hiring practices and it doesn't help matters. It's patronising and othering (just for different reasons ).

I agree very much about the "victim" mentality. People lapse into it. That's why I am sceptical of things like counselling in certain circumstances as there will always be a parent to blame or a system and once someone has decided they're a victim , it can be very detrimental to their recovery or success, and of course their mindset.

https://www.ciphr.com/blog/what-is-blind-recruitment Personally I think blind recruitment is a better way of reducing discrimination in hiring than these kind of schemes.

The point is that these roles wouldn't have to exist as only open to people of black/caribbean heritage, if discrimination didn't exist, how are we going to stamp out discrimination.

It doesn’t seem that hard to prove, the OP said it’s only open to people of black/Caribbean heritage. Its clear.

Discrimination, a biased view, is hard to prove.
Obese people are discriminated against, working class people, POC, those with crooked teeth, there are some things that you cannot hide from potential employers or prove that they used it against you.
It has always existed.
That's why we need access programmes for certain groups.

We really should have some legislation in the U.K. in order to prevent employment opportunities being based on people’s skin colour.

Racism is a very modern term. Colonialism and slavery had nothing to do with racism. It had to do with a power dynamic between people who came from a poor country, with dreadful food shortages rife with disease and famine and those that didn't.

You think division causes more division?

You are 100% right. It may be worth considering then why certain people are shouting and screaming that we need MORE DIVERSITY! We most certainly do not.

No one has said it doesn't exist. And of course crimes still happen even though laws are there to prevent it.

Not once on this thread however has anyone provided any peer reviewed studies or EVIDENCE that it still exists. Where is the evidence that we need quota based job positions and not just hire on merit.

I'm well aware of how human history has played out. Yes for a very short time hundreds of years ago black people were kept as slaves. That time was long ago.

As for the civil rights movement... That was a time when black people, and black families, were thriving. Single parent rate was below 20%. Fast forward to 2026, single parent rate is up to 70% and the disparities economically are large. No one would try to argue we are more racist now than back in the mid 20th century and yet black people are doing worse now than then.

If you view people through your eyes as victims that is ultimately what they will eventually become.