Diversity schemes for young people - mixed race child.

You're right it's just one factor and there's even big disparity in outcomes for different black students eg from African families vs from Caribbean, and that seems to be partly cultural and partly financial from what I've read. How related that is to epigenetics and generational trauma etc is quite interesting too.

Class is also a factor that should be considered in diversity.

You won't find many non-white heavy metal bands.

Is that because of racial discrimination? Unlikely. These things are not always down to evil 'whitey'.

I suspect that class in the UK has more effect on life chances than colour, and that we import race issues from the U.S., where race does indeed seem to be a big issue.

Colour is an easy thing to identify (great for quotas), unlike class, but is it really meaningful in the UK as an indicator of diversity?

They exist for a reason. There are so few black men from African heritage in some professions where it would be useful to have them eg law.

Hmm I've often pondered this myself as I think my family sounds similar to you in that I have a black Caribbean parent and a white parent so consider myself mixed race. My husband is white and my children also look kind of "Mediterranean" but I've never really thought of them as mixed race and I just tick white British on the forms. I think alot of it comes down to self identity and it depends on the specific criteria too as it's normally just of afro-carribbean heritage but doesn't specify how far that heritage needs to go back. Maybe make an informal enquiry before applying to find out more about the criteria? Tricky to navigate it all isn't it as you don't want him to feel awkward once he's there

According to the 2021 census, around 18% of the UK population are POC. So if your figure of "nearly 17% of the workforce" (however that is defined) is correct, they are not vastly over-represented at all. Actually, that would suggest that they are slightly underrepresented, although not massively so. The ratios in some sectors will obviously be much worse.

And then, of course, there is an additional layer of complexity which relates not only to the overall number of POC in any given sector relative to the population as a whole, but also the rate at which they are able to progress and reach comparable levels of success and seniority etc. We would need to analyse those stats to understand the extent of equality that has been achieved.

I’d say he is fully entitled to apply as he is of mixed heritage - it doesn’t matter to what degree….but you have to listen to his views on this. If it makes him feel uncomfortable then he shouldn’t do it. But these schemes are often about bringing more diverse views and perspectives into a workplace and his experiences growing up with a mixed race parent and black grandparents will very likely give him a different outlook on lots of issues that are very relevant and useful in companies lacking a diverse workforce. If you explain it to him like that he may see the value he can bring in that respect and appreciate how he qualifies for such a scheme. It’s not just about having faced discrimination it’s about being able to contribute something a firm might not currently have.

Where on earth have you pulled those figures from? Are they for on screen talent? They definitely aren't for behind the camera in TV which is still 'hideously white' and a part of why the industry has had to run schemes like this in recent years, to help build a more diverse workforce.

I think @RainbowBrighite called it well.

DH is mixed race Afro Caribbean, and has a similar skin tone to Jude Bellingham and has suffered discrimination- ethnic minorities are under represented in his industry.

SIL and DNephews all have the same skin colour as DH. DS and DNiece are both blonde and blue eyed.

I’ve seen myself that DNephews are treated differently from DS/DNiece due to skin colour; so if I’m brutally honest I feel these sort of schemes would benefit them more but equally it’s not wrong for DS or DNiece to apply as they are mixed race but they look different.

It’s a really tricky one.

Sectors where POC are over represented don't operate schemes to increase their representation. The schemes operate in sectors where under representation has been identified. When assessing if a sector is representative, it takes into account the percentage of the population who are from that group.
I can't provide evidence of the under representation being addressed by the scheme OP is referring to, because I don't know what the scheme is. But, say for the sake of argument, its the judiciary. 4% of the UK identify as black. 1% of judges are black, so thats evidence of under representation in that sector.

It doesnt matter what he looks like, he is Carribean. And he meets the criteria, his skin and eye colour is irrelevant.

I hope he applies and wish him luck

I don't think there is any difference inately in terms of how hard people work. There have been credible studies done into attributes such as intelligence by people like Thomas Sowell (who is a black man) that are very interesting but maybe a bit too controversial to argue about on here.

I don't think white people are over represented. Obviously there will be variation amongst different sectors. But if we look at sectors like TV and advertising then POC are vastly over represented and make up nearly 17% of the workforce. Considering the only make up less than 4% of the general population there's a likely chance that's due to racist hiring practices to make them look good.

Can you show any evidence of what you claim as so far no ones actually produced any despite many claims that it exists.

The evidence lies in the under representation of people who are not white in the sector operating the scheme. Unless you believe that white people are innately more intelligent, capable, hard working etc than POC, so are over represented in these sectors on their merit alone, then it follows there's other factors at play that results in the under representation. The schemes aim to address these other factors.

It sounds like the scheme doesn't require DS to have actively been discriminated against or disadvantaged to apply, just that he's of black heritage, which he is. I'd encourage him to apply and then it's up to the scheme organisers/ employers to decide if they want him.
Arguably for better diversity in the workplace his background as a mixed race young person who may not obviously appear to be so is as important to have in the mix, because his lived experience will be different than a young person who is more visibly mixed race or black. Same reasons that disabilities don't have to be visible for people to apply for schemes to help level the playing field there too.
It's embarrassing that posters are pretending that discrimination doesn't happen just because the law says it shouldn't. If that was the case then Pregnant And Screwed could happily shut up shop and BLM would have nothing to protest about. These days it's obviously not the outright 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish' approach but might be a more subtle someone else was 'a better fit for the company'.

I detest them too and I'd like to avoid them like the plague. Unfortunately for me, people employing folks on skin colour and name are the owners of industries and trying to avoid them would make my employment opportunities miniscule.

I have not personally been discriminated against on the grounds of my race. But I'm white, so that isn't very surprising.

I have witnessed quite a lot of discrimination in the workplace, though. Occasionally overt and deliberate...I have had to discipline people for that. But more often, it is subtle and unintentional. And I have called people in for that too. Like the white male manager who was asked to put people forward to work on a development project. He was horrified when I pointed out to him that he had put forward 3 white males, and that he had ignored all of the other considerable "talent" in the team. He had not intended to be discriminatory, and I believe that he was genuinely upset when it was pointed out to him. It was just his subconscious bias that led him to imagine a white man working on that project.

My Asian DH has experienced a lot of discrimination in the workplace over the years. And in other settings. It is eye opening when you see it. And yes, there are courts and tribunals etc, but do you realise how much stress and work goes into actually evidencing discrimination? It's utterly exhausting, and very often, it is just easier for people to let it go. And who can blame them...it would be totally soul destroying to have to constantly fight just to get your basic rights enforced. People are worn down and worn out by it, and sometimes it just isn't worth the aggro... why should people have to constantly cycle up a steep hill simply to stay in the same place?

I'm not buying into a narrative, I'm telling you what I've observed over many years. Typically in quite "right-on", progressive workplaces which think they have it all sussed. I wonder what makes you so confident that racism and inequality doesn't exist?

If you experienced adversity as a result of your heritage, then an element of that will have reflected on your DS. Possibly your own level of achievement, or some of your attitudes or things that have influenced how you brought him up.

Unless we think adversity and barriers are wiped out in one generation, then he qualifies.

He might as well apply if he meets the criteria. Most of the people who benefit from these kinds of schemes aren't actually disadvantaged anyway, many from wealthy families and have had every advantage in life, so it's not like he is likely to be taking a place away from someone more in need of it than he is.

How would your son describe himself if he was filling out one of the diversity forms for HR? Those schemes are designed to address the fact that there is a lack of representation so if he fits that representation (by his own description) then he is helping balance it. Your dad must have faced huge amounts of discrimation so if this helps in some way rectify that then it's probably justice well served.

If the criteria is “of black heritage” then he probably does qualify. I agree with the PP who said that “not black enough” is quite an offensive idea.

as above if he fits the criteria I would encourage him to apply
everyone else will be
the only person I know who benefitted from such a scheme was mixed race from a wealthy family , went to private primary and secondary and then off to a mid range Russell group uni - perfectly capable I’m sure of doing a good job

However Im not sure that’s who it’s aimed at so if they can benefit why shouldn’t your son !

If he fits the criteria, go for it. They're not going to pull out a colour chart or measure his cranium or anything. I always stick DS down for such advantages (why not? Its what they are for) and like yours, he probably looks more Mediterranean.

I think for me it would depend on if he truly feels he is disadvantaged by his ethnicity or not.

This!

Where is the inequality? We are equal! If you believe you've been genuinely discriminated against based on the colour of your skin then we have courts and tribunerals that will make a judgement against someone for this.

What has happened is we've created an environment that rewards victimisation. So the first thing many people do, if for example someone of a specific race doesn't get the job they wanted over a white person, is to shout and scream racism when in reality this was nothing to do with it.

It's so damaging to black people to be told over and over they're disadvantaged and by default are seen as 'lesser than' by the society they live in. Please just stop this buying into the narrative and assuming because people say there is research that it exists, as it doesn't!