To NOT arrange for my child to be tutored for 11+?

I’m in Trafford. DS went to a grammar and DD to a comp (she refused a tutor and I wasn’t going to force her!)
Very bright kids who are not tutored stand virtually no chance of passing the entrance exam, whilst average kids with good tutors usually sail through. It’s a stupid system and very unfair.
I will say though, mine are 20 and 21 now, and if you look at their friends and where they’ve ended up (uni/jobs wise), you’d be hard pushed to distinguish which went to grammar and which didn’t.

I would say you don't have to pay for tutors, but it will take more than a couple of past papers practice.

Perfectly possible for you to mug up on the techniques and get a bunch of them and mark them.
I did this with my DS (for private school secondary entrance not grammar as I dont live in that area).

Hi OP, my daughter sits hers next month- I wasn't going to tutor until I realised at the start of year 5 that ALL her friends had one!!! When I went through the papers I realised there was stuff on there that she wouldn't be taught at school, algebra, non verbal and spatial reasoning....I passed it 30 years ago put I don't remember it being anything like this. She has had an hour a week with a tutor for the past year and an hour a week with me topping up the maths. I can't see the benefit of putting something on a test the child can't possibly have seen before unless tutored. Ridiculous.

I don’t think you’re ’feeling like an idiot’. I think you are worried now that you haven’t done as much as other parents to help Your child pass a test that you decide to enter them for. But you still want to come across as someone who thinks getting a child a tutor is pushy and embarrassing.

My understanding is that tutoring for the 11+ from yr2 isn't uncommon in Trafford.

But that's not what I replied to. I was referrto the comnent " to be put in for an exam and not pass"

That can happen no matter how well you prepare

If you tutor to get in, be prepared to pay to tutor the whole time they are there!

I whole-heartedly agree with you OP, in principle. However, both my kids are at super selective grammars. I didn’t want to tutor, but EVERYBODY was tutoring so I had to jump on the band wagon or my kids would miss out. I’ve now bought into this system that I disagree with but when it comes to it, I want the best for my children,

Ultimately, get your child tutored OP so it is a level playing field. Unfortunately, NOT tutoring your child doesn’f give the bright kid from a poverty-stricken background a place. All the other MC kids are being tutored, therefore, sadly, it just means that not tutoring your child puts YOIR child at a disadvantage.

It’s also life to prepare for things. Going into an 11+ exam, having never seen the exam format, never practiced the questions, never had a mock exam or sat any sort of exam before, is like going into a job interview for a random job you don’t know about, held in a language you don’t speak, dressed in a binbag.

If you don’t prepare for things in life, you will feel shit about doing them.

The trouble is in some areas (eg Bucks)

• the test includes content not taught in state schools till later in year 6
• private school pupils and out of county ones especially are prepared much earlier, over time this has pushed up the level you have to reach to get in.

If you don't tutor/prepare intensively, even if exceptionally bright, your chance of getting in is low.

I wish Bucks would block out of county and consider capping the proportion of places available to pupils taking the test from private schools. Eg if 10% of pupils in Bucks are at private schools, no more than 10% of grammar places should go to pupils from private schools.

But failing at anything whether it be an exam, job interview or whatever is part of bloody life.

Not doing something in case you fail is just ridiculous. If you do then you pick yourself up, dust yourself down and carry on

Judging from this thread, being bright isn’t enough without also understanding how to answer the questions and having covered the relevant parts of the syllabus.

I had a few months tutoring before 11+ but the focus was very much on exam technique and problem solving. My parents would not have been able to help me at home with these skills. I’m not sure I’d encountered non-verbal reasoning in class before and it’s not something that you want to face for the first time in an exam. This was 30+ years ago and interested to hear that some exams are still VR and NVR as I’d been told locally that it was maths and creative writing now. Even a bright child couldn’t be expected to know parts of the year 6 syllabus that they hadn’t covered yet. Sitting the exam without some preparation seems unfair.

You still have time Op if they are interested. There’s books of past papers. The one my dc used was Bond think there were 3 Bond books (maths, English and VR) with 4 tests per book so 12 tests total.
She did them over summer hols so only 2 a week. Liked seeing how her scores went up as she got faster.
If you are having to repeatedly cajole then grammar probably not a good fit for them.

There’s a local state primary school nr me that sails close to wind by offering a lunchtime ‘club’ to prepare kids. It’s known as the one that gets the most kids in grammar locally. Other primary schools adhere more strictly and don’t do any verbal reasoning or yr6 maths early.

It’s about finding a good tutor too.

My dd had group tutoring (4 children), once a week in year 5 at a tuition centre. They had to do an assessment be be offered a place - there were a few pissed off parents who’s children didn’t pass the assessment, but they were very clear that 11+ tutoring isn’t suited to the abilities of all children. That seemed far fairer on the children to me.

Any exam is easier if you are familiar with the type of question and there are books and practice tests that you can use.

DC got into the Grammars locally a few years ago, just with parental help.

That was like my friend’s son, who had no prep at all. The poor boy came out distraught, she said he was absolutely sobbing, he just didn’t know what to do. She thought as he was really clever (he is), he would be fine. He just didn’t know what to do. I felt so bad for him.

There are loads of ineffective tutors out there that string parents and kids of average ability along for significant amounts of time - so not paying for tutoring in itself, is definitely not a bad thing.
If your child is a voracious reader with excellent mental arithmetic and naturally fast at writing and processing and performing under pressure, they will be fine with basic familiarisation of exam format and how to maximise marks. But make sure their school has covered the maths curriculum that may come up. And I advise that basic familiarisation of reasoning questions is recommended. Also a mock test to perform in an exam hall with other kids is often worth the cost. Just so they know what to expect on the day.

If he's bright he should pass the exam with no tutor. If children need tutoring to get into a grammar how will they cope when actually there? Your child will do well at whichever school he attends. My granddaughter has just got her BSc Hons after being an August baby (youngest in year) & struggling until 6th Form. She had a LSA at school and slowly caught up then surpassed her classmates. She never had a tutor, but was in a city that was comprehensive not selective. Kids find their own level if they are workers. Your son will do well.

As others have said, OP, it is very dependent on area/content of the 11+ your child will be sitting. Where I am a larger proportion of the exam is verbal and non verbal reasoning than Maths & English. The state primaries are forbidden from teaching VR/NVR, the local prep schools prepare it heavily. Therefore if your child is a state candidate, some additional preparation (whether that takes the form of an external tutor, or a VR/NVR technique-savvy parent) is essential. Makes a mockery of the ideology of grammar schools, as you say, but it is the reality here.

It's a bit of a confidence crusher to be put in for an exam and not pass. Your DC is not to know you didn't prepare them and will not see the difference in all their class mates who got taught how to recognise the question type and address it quickly.

Being bright isn't always enough because there are trip you up questions that lose you time and the paper isn't designed to necessarily be finished. You end up in situations like not doing the last 9 maths questions and missing easy marks.

Speed is really important. By now (Trafford) those kids you say "have been tutored to within an inch of their lives" have worked through each question type methodically, learned how to answer them, then spent the summer getting up to speed with mock papers. Also reading and learning vocab at a steady rate to help with verbal reasoning.

Many who are tutored won't get in. But unfair to pit an untutored child against them. Unless super bright?

My dc very bright (well one is) but I don't think they'd have had multiple schools to choose from (we have state and Catholic grammars) if they hadn't put in the practice

It's a bit of a confidence crusher to be put in for an exam and not pass. Your DC is not to know you didn't prepare them and will not see the difference in all their class mates who got taught how to recognise the question type and address it quickly.

Being bright isn't always enough because there are trip you up questions that lose you time and the paper isn't designed to necessarily be finished. You end up in situations like not doing the last 9 maths questions and missing easy marks.

Speed is really important. By now (Trafford) those kids you say "have been tutored to within an inch of their lives" have worked through each question type methodically, learned how to answer them, then spent the summer getting up to speed with mock papers. Also reading and learning vocab at a steady rate to help with verbal reasoning.

Many who are tutored won't get in. But unfair to pit an untutored child against them. Unless super bright?

My dc very bright (well one is) but I don't think they'd have had multiple schools to choose from (we have state and Catholic grammars) if they hadn't put in the practice

It will really depend on where you are.

We're in a similar position, OP. We're in Chester, the schools are fine, but the grammar schools in Wirral are excellent. They're also not that competitive compared to some other parts of the country, generally the top 1/3 get in.

DD1 didn't have a tutor but we did a fair bit with her from May in Year 5. She thinks everyone else she's friends with was tutored.

She passed, but I put in a lot of effort in understanding the subject matter, particularly the different types of NVR questions.

So maybe equivalent in time and support to tutoring, but we did it ourselves.