National ID Cards

Bringing in an ID card is just a distraction, will cost billions and nothing will change much. ID cards can easily be faked or stolen so it won't do anything to stop illegal immigration

ID cards in my country have biometrics stored on them so they can't be easily faked or stolen.

The trouble is, people think it will be a magic wand that will solve all these problems overnight.

We have separate systems for passports, health services, schooling etc, but they don't talk to each other. Anyone who has dealt with more than one area of the NHS recently will know the frustration this can cause. Some parts of the NHS still use fax machines!

Bringing in an ID card is just a distraction, will cost billions and nothing will change much. ID cards can easily be faked or stolen so it won't do anything to stop illegal immigration.

If that is the aim then it would be more effective to start a biometric database, with ID cards, just for foreign migrants. Students, workers and those who arrive on rubber dinghies, all are recorded on arrival and put on the database. Illegals will likely give false names, but you will have biometric data if they are caught so it doesn't matter. If they are caught out later uskng a different name, that gives a reason to investigate further. Biometric data could be compared with records abroad.

If someone who has been previously deported turns up again, they can be identified and it will cut down appeals and processing time.

If someone is caught working when their student visa has expired, ditto.

If someone is not an asylum seeker but a wanted criminal, not so easy to hide. In fact maybe give Britain a miss.

If someone is not an asylum seeker but just someone from a perfectly safe country who is trying their chances, same thing.

Legal migrants who abide by the terms of their visas will have nothing to fear (isn't that what they keep telling us?) those doing wrong can be more easily traced and dealt with.

This would be far cheaper and more effective way of dealing with the migration problem than setting up a database for a population of 70 million people. DH has worked on many government IT projects, the problems are immense, as is the money wasted.

Deep down I think it boils down to “We don’t do this HERE.”.

So how exactly do you think they work /are being used to control? In a way that a passport or driving licence or other forms of ID don’t?

I want the cards so we can move on like other countries have and link up services. I think the trans debate has opened this up a lot too with people starting to realise a lot of sex offenders are using loopholes with gender ID to change their names and re-locate, for example.

Unless you live a subsistence life off grid, have no passport or driving license, claim no benefits, pay no taxes, use no public services, use no banking facilities, the government knows everything about you that an ID card includes anyway. It’s just conspiracy-mongering that ID cards are in some way uniquely providing the means to “watch” you.

I just really don’t see why people are concerned.

it should be a nominal fee, and that’s that. You carry it with you. When I go to Italy in a couple of weeks I’ll need to have my passport on me at all times, and I’ll comply because those are the laws. Really not that big a deal

Would be good if the uk could join the rest of the world and bring in national ID cards.
Having an identification number makes life so much easier - no more trying to prove your identity and address with a gas bill addressed to you or use convoluted, easily forgotten, log in methods on government websites.

I would still like OP to explain what exactly is the problem with them re free speech and monitoring, controlling. And no, I won't go watch some conspiracy videos

We use them for everything where I am from. You can't sign contracts or take out loans, pick up official "to own hands" letter etc without it. It basic identifier. We have chip ones now and it's so easy.

Re NI cards, as pp said, not a proof of identity plus they stopped issuing them in 2010 or so.

Bring it on. We should have had them years ago.

Photo ID can now be needed for many things, including voting at a UK polling station now. Don't say "just take your passport or driving licence" because neither are compulsory documents so not everyone has them. Not everyone drives or even learns to so they don't need a licence, and you don't need a passport unless you want to travel abroad.

So an acceptable National Identity card should do the trick, surely. Other countries ) Germany, Netherlands etc.) manage to have them without issues so why not the UK?

Anyone who is that worried about being tracked should probably never have a mobile phone, tablet of any sort or a laptop computer. You can be tracked all day and every day by these but in reality if you hadn't come to the attention of police or security services then it's unlikely they would bother with you.

Honestly, I gave a lot of power to the Alphabet Corporation (Google) and Meta decades ago. The government also holds a ton of information on me, and as a vetted citizen, I think the police do too. Having a National ID is nothing by comparison.

You mean like passports and drivers licence and school and work id and all the identifiable information people put on social media and the internet?

I've lived on countries with ID cards and it was no different to carrying your driving licence. I think the only time we actually had to show them to anyone was when DH witnessed a crash between a motorcyclist and a car, we had given First Aid to the motorcyclist and the Police just needed to confirm our ID for our statements.

Do people think we would be constantly scanning them to get anywhere for example? Or not pay in shops without them?

I think they would come in very useful for young people who don't or can't have a driving licence or passport and need proof of ID in bars and shops when buying age restricted items.

If you're watching conspiracy theory videos then I'm guessing you're on social media, which means you don't really care that much about your own privacy.

Plenty of countries have ID cards without any violations of their freedoms, they're very useful. The UK attitude to them is bonkers.

Control you? Like...make you go to the CoOp when you really wanted to go to Tesco? Something like that?

Madness. Stop watching shit and get a grip.

That's no "proof" of who you are as people can easily carry a NIC card for someone else.

Same way that certain groups "share" driving licences.

We need something biometric to prove that the person holding it IS the person named on the card, such as Iris recognition.

Most of us now carry smart phones with facial recognition, so the "tech" is out there and widely available. Passports are going down the same route especially in Europe and they've had it for a long time in the USA - i.e. more than just a person comparing a photo with the person stood in front of them.

We need something that can prove someone's unique identity to stop the rise in criminality, dangerous/illegal driving, illegal black economy workers, etc.

In 20 years no-one ever stopped me in the street to ask for ID.

We have thousands of people in the UK who should not be here. Im happy to have a national ID card scheme if it means people here illegally will be identified and deported.

We should have had them years ago, many European countries have them.
It’s the reason so many “illegal” migrants want to come here, it’s so easy to get a job working for people who don’t bother doing basic checks, if we had ID cards it would be so much harder for dodgy employers to have them working.

I live abroad and have an ID card. I can use it to access medical treatment, do my taxes, travel in Schengen, access all government services, buy Titres Services (scheme to pay for cleaners etc - which is tax deductible) store warranties for expensive purchases etc etc. If I move house - I have to inform the commune, who will check I live where I say I do, and update the system so key services have my new address. I honestly don't understand why people are so against it in the UK - surely it would decimate fraud - benefit, health, employment, etc etc. Here I need to show that i am eligible for e.g. healthcare or i would be billed for it. My employer knows I have a legal right to work. I declare who lives in my house and their status i.e. family.

You do realise that all your devices track you and ‘spy on’ you?

And cctv?

I have no problem with this. The number of crimes the police are able to solve now due to mobiles and cctv is phenomenal. I don’t know how the crims make a living these days.

Can't we just use our national insurance numbercards? We have these already and we can be identified by our NI numbers.

Bring them on! I can’t understand why we don’t have them - so many European countries do.