National ID Cards

Can you give some examples of how ID cards would be abused by the state/police?

Nothing to do with tinfoil hats, but everything to do with over reach by the state and police. They already abused powers and use them in ways that the legislation never intended and clearly can't be trusted. I.D. cards will not solve the problem of illegal work and unlawful migrants but will lead to further abused.

I don’t understand why we don’t have them already. Works well in other countries but I don’t wear a daily tin foil hat so what do I know…

We have a major problem with fake self employment, the “gig” economy and the black economy. Proper employment is pretty good for compliance with id checking, but the black economy and fake self employment is the Wild West out there - anything goes!

Police would identify the takeaway driver/rider via the id card. At the moment they could give the police a false name and just never turn up for the court hearing,and the police could never trace them again- that’s part of why police tend not to show much interest .

It’s interesting. When I lived abroad there was a requirement to register locally with details sbout everyone in the household and you told them if you moved / changes. Essentially they held equivalent information on you to the census. You carried ID by law and you’d get a fine if you didn’t carry it. It wasn’t big like 10 euro and you had to attend a police station with ID.

It seemed intrusive initially but you get used to it pretty quickly.

Or just dump the NI number and have the NHS number be the personal ID code for each person and link everything to it.

So...
Is the uk government less trustworthy than most others or are people in other countries dummies for accepting having to have ID and some kind of totalitarian governments?

Frame it as immigration control or crime prevention (some) people love the idea.

Frame it as a ‘papers please’ society or a ridiculously expensive venture which is open to data breaches and government overreach, not so much. Minorities tend to be more sceptical… can’t think why…

”Nothing to hide..? Nothing to worry about!”

The reason people are concerned is that they believe the ID will be eventually incorporated into a digital currency system and that any online criticism of the government or certain groups will result in the withholding of money or access to goods and services. It's a social credit system whereby people who are socially compliant will be able to live reasonably, but others will be punished. The problem comes when authoritarian governments or regimes crack down on political or other types of views or beliefs. Obviously life could become very uncomfortable under such a system.

For those saying it couldn't happen here or that digital currency won't come in, digital currency is already being planned and we've already seen how politics can quickly take a wrong turn.

You can be monitored now if necessary. Most public sector agencies have information sharing protocols for fraud and criminal investigation purposes

Actually, I'd like a (much higher) barrier to illegal cheap labour trafficked in by criminals. I agree that the economic migrants are looking for a better life and might be solid citizens eventually, but there's no evidence of anything yet that suggests they add much to the fabric of the UK.

If born here we are assigned an NHS number at birth, and sent an NI number at 16-ish. Link the two numbers and everyone already has a unique id. Just use that as a starting point.

Yes, I think you are. You're watching way too many. And it is all cobblers, sorry.

That’s because the public sector never has any money & goes for the cheaper option every single time.

if we invested in public services & funded them to go for the correct option & not the cheapest one it would probably work a lot better!

I think they are a good idea but they’re not a cure all

It will be sold to us as a convenience but it will absolutely evolve into some Chinese style social credit system. Once CBDCs and UBI is rolled out it will control where and what we spend. I sincerely believe this will happen sooner or later.

it puts up a barrier though.

But all i see here is "weak excuse/reason it won't work - so we can't have it".

I think the issue is that one person goes and registers and then their friends use their registration (it’s all done online anyway)

there’s been problems with uber because the driver isn’t the one insured or the one registered. Was a bit of a scandal with them trying to cover up the sexual assault stats

and same with deliveroo. I’ve had ‘Ben’ delivering and a woman showed up

well, if the UK would be sensible, at the time you sign your contract, your employer is required to check your nationality/status, and you provide photo ID to prove it.

It really isn't rocket science. Every job i've ever had in an EU country has required me to show proof that i am allowed to work there.

I think it comes down to the relationship with the state

the uk has a very different relationship - look at policing. Here it is policing by consent whereas in France and Germany it is policing by law - we own the state - it doesn’t own us

however, given modern technology and the amount of services etc done on line and that digital footprint I don’t think the old arguments hold so well

I also don't understand the resistance to ID cards here. I seem to remember that it was mooted a few years ago (Blair gov't)? and was eventually dropped.
Personally, I would welcome an ID card - especially if it doubled up as a driving licence, ni number etc. DH and I no longer have valid passports as we no longer travel abroad. I have a photo driving licence, but DH still has the original paper one from where first moved to this address almost 40 years ago. The lack of photo id makes it difficult at times and whilst we have plenty of doctors, teachers, barristers in the family, they cannot endorse an application for a passport etc and our GP no longer does it. A national ID card would make it a lot easier for people like DH, as well as employers etc with the right to work information etc.
Passport office, DVLA and so on already have the mechanisms in place to issue ID cards and a staged rollout would spread the workload and the cost.

Great idea. Then the UK can charge and entrance fee to the thousands of tourists traipsing through the British Museum, National Gallery etc etc.
That would help.

So the mayor of my town popped to the market to buy something and saw two police officers harassing a stall holder and stepped in. Police turned on him and asked him for his ID - he had left it at home and spent the night in the cells

however, we share so much data now I don’t believe there are many arguments against them (other than police using it for bad reasons!!) and there are lots of positives in our modern world

in Kenya you have an online government account and you pay tax, buy relevant services, use it as ID etc etc. it makes life easier for sure

I think it’s peoples smart phones collecting our data and doing that.